Questions and comments received from community members interested in the London Secondary Panel Attendance Area Review will be presented here, along with answers provided by TVDSB staff, for the information of London school communities.
For more details about the review, please visit www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 441: Edgevalley subdivision students are sent to Northridge and Lucas (both over crowded). What legal precedence or arrangement do they have so that you keep bypassing them to be redirected to Montcalm and Hillcrest?
Response 441: Thank you for your note. Administration did not recommend any changes here as one of the objectives of the review was to keep elementary cohorts together. Northridge PS is a feeder to A.B. Lucas SS and the school itself is very proximal to Lucas so it would not be practical to change the entire feeder to Montcalm.
Comment 440: I reside in the Riverbend area and I'm feeling anxious about the construction timeline for the New West London PS. Could you please provide an update on its current status?...With the new school in planning, will my children have the option to choose Oakridge SS?
Over the past 5 years, Oakridge has conducted an out-of-area lottery three times. Unfortunately, kids from the Riverbend area were not given the opportunity to participate in the lottery at the end of 2023. Will there be any change in this regard this year?
As per the meeting notes, once the new school is constructed, all children from the Riverbend area will be assigned to Oakridge SS and provided with transportation. Could the school board consider providing parents with options earlier, prior to the completion of the new school?
Considering the importance of siblings attending the same school and the desire for a smoother transition, I hope the school board could grant families the right to choose between Oakridge or Saunders. Additionally, I suggest that near-future out-of-area applications for Oakridge (September 2025) be given preference to Riverbend area kids to facilitate a smoother transition for these families.
Response 440: Thank you for your email. The new West London Elementary School has not yet been approved by the Ministry of Education. As a result, the secondary school boundaries would not change until the school opens in order to keep graduating cohorts together in future years. Once approved, it would take a number of years to construct the school.
TVDSB has developed an Out of Area Exemption process, the details for which are available here. There are years when this option may not be available for families due to space constraints at a school.
Comment 439: What is considered "registered"? Is this student enrolled and attending the school? What about Grade 8 students who do high school picks in February? Are they considered registered? If so there would essentially be zero kids enrolled in September 2025 FI at Clarke?
Response 439: Thank you for your note. All current students as of March 31, 2025 would have legacy agreement to remain at their current registered school. The French Immersion program at Clarke Road SS would build up over time, with incoming grade 9 students attending the program in September of 2025.
Comment 438: Why is Central not being considered/transitioned to a French Immersion School instead of Clarke Road? Parents and students are not wanting to attend Clarke Road why are you not listening to their input?
How will you maintain the level of French courses and opportunities that are currently at Banting and Laurier? It never an option in summertime so now will have less opportunities to receive the education/courses if less teachers in the school.
Response 438: Thank you for your correspondence. Clarke Road SS was selectd as a potential third secondary school site for French Immersion programming given its geographic location and availability of student spaces.
Comment 437: How is it the board deems it "equitable" to grandfather in siblings at the high school level but not at elementary? The Kindergarten French immersion program is done by lottery with no priority going to families with kids already going to that school. But at a high school level where the kids are far more capable of attending separate schools the board is giving priority to siblings? How absolutely unfair and unequitable. Giving access to programs to some families but not all!
Response 437: Thank you for your note. Legacy Agreement Options are determined by Trustees through each attendance area review and are informed by public consultation processes. We can confirm that the option for siblings to attend the same school has also been made available through past elementary attendance area reviews.
Kindergarten enrolment in French Immersion schools is not a boundary review but a separate process that occurs each year during school registration. It is managed by random selection due to the limited number of kindergarten spaces available. All students, regardless of where they attend kindergarten, are eligible to enroll in French Immersion in Grade 1.
Comment 436: Please remember the directive that resulted from the last attendance area review, which was to present an option that does not destroy the French immersion program. The board discussed and voted on not using changes to a program to solve a space issue. And the vote was to present an option that reallocates students without affecting the FI program. To re-open the review will not be the same amount of work and time, because the initial assessment around attendance, growth, school populations etc. is already complete. I urge you to do what was asked, and present an option that preserves French immersion while also addressing growing population needs.
Comment 435: [Focus] on better resourcing and supporting under-utilized schools before embarking on changing boundaries...
Comment 434: Students from Cleardale Public School should continue to have the option of attending South...
Comment 433: I am very concerned that after the the board decided not to proceed with any of the recommendations from the review process in the spring of 2023 that nothing will be done about the overcrowding at certain high schools. My children will attend Lucas high school within the next 5 years and it is unacceptable to have the school operating so far above its capacity. None of the factors impacting this issue (overcrowding, underutilization, provincial funding criteria for a new high school) have changed since last spring and yet somehow the board expects to magically find a solution that is politically popular. I strongly urge the board to move forward with redistricting decisions that are in the best interest of the future of the board and all students rather than caving to the political pressure.
Comment 432: Will there be any secondary school boundary changes in London for the 2024-2025 school year?
Response 432: As a decision has not yet been made, there are no secondary school boundary changes in London for the 2024-2025 school year.
Comment 431: Since H.B.Beal SS and Central SS share the same boundary, does the home address in downtown Richmond-Talbot-Ridout area guarantees a kid to enter into Central SS?
Response 431: The Find My Local School tool on the TVDSB website can be used to assist with finding out which school’s attendance area you reside in.
Please note that there is a boundary overlap between London Central and Beal but the attendance areas are not identical. For those situations where students reside within the attendance areas of two English track secondary schools, they would be eligible to register at any one of those schools.
Comment 430: When is this going to be further looked into as students now in grade 8 were wanting to register for grade 9 at certain schools? Like students at South Dorchester all wanting the same feeder high school? Instead right now its so one or two students go to lord Dorchester and rest have to go to East Elgin.
Response 430: Thank you for your note. The Board will be exploring alternatives to the 23 recommendations in the June 27, 2023, City of London Secondary School Attendance Area Review Report (available in the June 27 meeting agenda). The decision follows an extensive public and school community input process about potential boundary changes that began January 31, 2023. Trustees have asked the Planning and Priorities Advisory Committee (PAPA) to work with staff to create additional options. These alternatives would then return to the Board for their consideration. To learn more, please visit the London Secondary Attendance Area Review website.
Comment 429: I have a daughter in grade 8 at South Dorchester in the boundaries too attend Lord Dorchester next year. With the boundaries the way they are right now she will be going to high school alone, as every other student is in the East Elgin boundaries. This really needs to be changed. It should be one feeder highschool. Or give the kids the option to go to either school. When putting Westminster Central with South Dorchester it was to build a community with the school that will be attending the new Belmont school. This shouldn't stop one year later and make the kids go to completely different high schools. Thanks.
Comment 428: This was the largest review of its kind, and because a few "rich" people have complained we are spending more money instead of making a decision.
How you let Lucas be as over populated as it is and Montcalm to go under utilized to this point is BEYOND RIDICULOUS.
Use the report we paid for and making a decision. Stop being swayed by parents who clearly don't understand that each student regardless of the school they attend is given the same education, the only difference is how it is followed through on at home.
Make the right decision now.
Comment 427: Can you please let the kids in Belmont choose between going to East Elgin S.S. or Lord Dorchester? There is already a Lord Dorchester bus that goes through the North end of Belmont. Please add a stop in Belmont on Manning Dr and Westchester Bourne area for those kids who desperately want to attend Lord Dorchester. PLEASE
Comment 426: TVDSB has said "elementary students can attend the same secondary school as their peers" as being one of two major considerations. You have used this consideration EXCEPT for Pearson kids. Currently, the Pearson - Central feeder system allows all Pearson kids to study with their Pearson friends in Central Secondary School, formative friendships they have taken 5 years to create. Perhaps not just TVDSB but the London City Council could explain why they are allowing unchecked development in North London BEFORE there is infrastructure (education, hospitals, police, fire, and utilities) in place. You are treating kids in like situations in an unlike manner and singling out Pearson kids. Why?
Comment 425: When is the final vote for the attendance area review?
For many the outcome of the vote impacts what courses students will be taking next year in secondary school. Their current school offers courses that the other schools don’t.
Will priority be given to impacted students to change their time table who are being forced out of their school because of the attend area review and lack of transportation ?
Having the vote this late in the school year gave no time to plan student’s future courses next year before being kicked of their current school.
Response 425: The decision on the attendance area review is scheduled to be made on Tuesday, June 27. The Board meeting will be livestreamed here starting at 7 pm. Please note that there are no changes planned to the course selection process for next year as this concluded earlier this year.
Comment 424: My daughter is in grade 7 at Mountsfield and wants to go to Central for high school when she graduates from middle school, my question is: Is there school bus provides from school board so she can attend to the school in London?
I heard some information from my friend that she told me if she goes to in London, that is only for 2years, she needs go come back to home school for last 2years , is that right? Sorry, because of some reason, I missed all the meetings, so I don’t know about the informations.
Response 424: TVDSB’s out of area exemption process is available here. Please note that transportation is not provided for out of area students at London Central.
Comment 423: Students enrolled at Victoria Public School should continue to have South Collegiate Institute as an option for their secondary school. To make kids who live in Old South, within walking distance of SCI, bus to Westminster does not make sense when viewed through climate, active transportation, and strong neighbourhood lenses.
Being able to get to and from school fosters independence, and allows kids to actively participate in before and after school extra curriculars and their neighbourhood. Victoria kids shouldn't have to sacrifice that in the name of a nonexistent school in the North end.
Comment 422: Westminster and Montcalm will remain under-utilized in all scenarios, and despite the proposed changes, why not have Pearson students attend these schools instead of Central? Wouldn’t this reinforces the stance that all highschools offer equal opportunities and educational outcomes in London? How will sending them to Central do anything other than continue to perpetuate overcrowding while leaving other schools below capacity?
Response 422: The decision regarding the feeder schools for Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts was deferred by Trustees to the Fall at the May 30, 2023 Board meeting. Administration will be bringing forward a supplementary report for Trustees’ consideration at that time.
Comment 421: Please read
https://lfpress.com/news/local-parents-push-back-as-expected-on-school-boundary-shakeup
My son will be grade 11 next year . He has been attending Saunders since grade 9. Please advise this will not affect my Son . He has been attending the tech Emphasis Program at Saunders
Response 421: Current students are proposed to remain at their current schools. In addition, there are no boundary changes planned for Emphasis Tech programming.
Comment 420: I do not agree with the proposed changes. Wish for boundaries to stay as is. Thanks for your time.
Comment 419: Sending kids from Cedar Hollow PS to Montcalm SS instead of Lucas SS will tear apart my kids from their sports friends. Most of my kid's sports friends are part of sports associations that have zones that are within the Lucas SS zone. (North London Nationals hockey and North London Nationals baseball) Why remove ONE public elementary school from the Lucas zone at the expense to the kid's social wellbeing. Something that I'm not even sure has been considered is the huge population increase in the new residential area East of Highbury Ave and North of Kilally Road. his residential area is nearly all medium and high density homes, townhomes and apartments. The kids are already zoned for Chippewa PS and Montcalm SS. This newly constructed residential area will add a lot more students to Montcalm SS without having to move Cedar Hollow PS kids out of the Lucas SS zone.
I can tell you one thing for sure, if this plan goes ahead, we will send our kids to Mother Terresa Catholic High School (my wife is baptized) so our kids will get in to MTS with no issue and still get to be with many of their North London sports friends or we will move out of the Montcalm SS zone.
Comment 418: How are the OTG, on the ground capacity numbers determined? Is this a standard formula across the province? Montcalm, Westminster and Clarke Rd are all secondary schools that have many technology course offerings. These schools have large classroom spaces that include woodworking areas, auto mechanics and design, greenhouses and healthcare. Are these large spaces taken into consideration when calculating the OTG?
Are these schools really operating under capacity, not busy and full? Or are they well utilized schools that just happen to have a lot of square footage dedicated to technology courses?
Response 418: OTG (On-the-Ground) capacity is determined by provincial regulations for loading spaces within schools. OTG does not include any temporary classrooms (e.g. portables).
Comment 417: Students living in the Blackfriars-Petersville neighbourhoods and the downtown Richmond-Talbot-Ridout area currently have London Central Secondary School and H.B. Beal as their home schools.
Central is the closest secondary school to these neighbourhoods and the only secondary school within reasonable walking distance.
It makes sense that students living in Blackfriars and the Richmond-Talbot block continue to have the option to attend Central as their home school.
There has been a long-time tradition in the Blackfriars neighbourhood of students walking across Blackfriars Bridge and up the Central steps to get to school.
Being able to walk or bike to school fosters independence in young adults and is better for the environment.
Students in these neighbourhoods should be able to attend their local neighbourhood secondary school.
This makes more sense than bussing them farther away across Riverside, Stanley rail underpass, Horton St. In traffic and through planned construction zones.
Comment 416: London Central is the only secondary school within reasonable walking distance of the Blackfriars neighbourhood. It makes sense for local students to continue to be able to attend the secondary school in their own neighbourhood. Students living in the Blackfriars neighbourhood can currently walk to elementary school at Jeanne Sauvé for French Immersion(formally Empress Avenue Public School) or walk to Eagle Heights Public School for English track elementary (bussing is also currently provided). There has been a long tradition of students from Blackfriars walking to Central across Blackfriars Bridge and up the Central steps to get to highschool.
The Blackfriars neighbourhood has a strong connection to downtown London. Blackfriars is a vibrant and diverse community of artists, musicians, professionals, researchers and faculty at Western, business owners and tradespeople. Many Blackfriars residents take an interest in the city's history and are proud of their neighbourhoods heritage designation. Many Blackfriars residents have a keen interest in environmental issues and are engaged citizens with the City of London, working to make the city healthier, greener and a better home for all. The Blackfriars community are strong supporters of arts and culture in downtown London (The Grand Theatre, music festivals and events, sporting events and concerts)
We are also a very diverse community with many newcomer families and international students and researchers-many with school aged children). It makes sense for London Central Secondary School to remain a designated home school option for Blackfriars. These students should have priority to attend the school in their neighbourhood (Including those living downtown right by Central in the Richmond-Talbot area). Being able to walk or bike to school fosters independence amongst our young adults, makes sense environmentally and is more convenient for families.
Comment 415: The reports by the consultants mentioned "low participation rates" for in-area students at London Central Secondary School.
How many in-area students choose NOT to go to Central even though it is their closest school and does the board understand why?
How many in-area students leave Central before graduating and does the board understand why?
The board's logo/motto is "You belong in Thames Valley." Is it true that all students belong at Central?
Some suggestions for improving the in-area participation rate:
-hosting high school orientation events and tours for Grade 8 students and Grade 8 family nights- invite in-area students and communicate with in-area families so they know about these events
-send senior students out to in-area schools to do presentations about life at Central and answer students questions
-invite local students to events at Central eg. Concerts, fundraisers, theatre productions via their schools
-strive to be an excellent all around high school offering a full range of programs:
Excellent academics, the arts, sports and more offerings in Technology and skilled trades. (We need surgeons who understand mechanics and have practical skills, we need business leaders who understand history and social justice, Engineers who have practical manufacturing, woodworking and technical skills and carpenters who appreciate the arts. If you're going on to a career in the skilled trades-you also deserve an excellent high school experience- opportunities to study the arts, drama, music, study literature.)
-the more students can see themselves at Central, if they are familiar with the school and know people who go there, the more chance they have of applying.
-meet the needs of students with different learning styles, recognize different ways of learning and different student strengths, support students with IEPs, learning disabilities, make sure you're providing the supports necessary for success for students who don't have English as their first language and may have had disruptions to their schooling
-promote health and wellness, healthy school-work-life balance, positive student mental health initiatives, look at ways of reducing anxiety, unhealthy stress and unhealthy forms of competition
-help all students to feel welcome and that they belong at Central (no matter your cultural or socio-economic or faith background or personality)
-participate in a school greening project-create more green, natural spaces at school -plant treees, native plants, a school garden with benches and tables where students can socialize, visit, study or eat their lunch
-make sure you're meeting students where they're at and not ignoring primary needs-take the stigma away from accessing important services- healthy school snacks and meals, meeting with school counselors.
-work with elementary guidance teachers and learning support teachers to provide information to students about their home school options and to encourage students to apply to their home school Central.
Parents and families appreciate when their children have a great school in the neighbourhood where they live and that they have a good experience going to their local school. It fosters independence in students when they can walk or bike to school in their own and home again after practice or activities. This is much more convenient for families, environmental and economical. It puts a burden on families who are responsible for transportation to out of area schools especially families without a vehicle, cost of fuel or bus pass and time and scheduling involved with driving students or having them bus longer distances)
We have to value excellent all around schools and attending your local school.
There is an equity issue when local students are being displaced or feel they don't belong at their local school or the school is not meeting the needs of students and supporting all students to succeed.
75% of Central's student population are out of area students, so this review will hear those voices at the school level meetings and in public feedback.
It is perhaps the families of students that aren't there that should also be considered.
Families of in area students who didn't want to attend their local school or left after their first year or two because they felt they didn't belong or were not enjoying their highschool experience and feeling discouraged.
Thank you everyone for your consideration to this matter.
Comment 414: Wortley Village is a distinct village within the City of London and a very walker-friendly neighbourhood. It is a very safe and pleasant walk to school for Wortley Students to the elementary schools in the village and London South Collegiate Institute. Students of Victoria Public School should continue to be able to walk or bike to London South C.I. This fits with our city's environmental goals, is more economical, it's good for the Wortley-Old South Community and gives young adults independence to be able to walk home from sports practices, band or after school activities on their own. This makes a lot more sense than running school buses through Wortley Village and sending these students out of their neighbourhood to Westminster.
Comment 413: Is it ever possible for the board to revisit decisions voted on by trustees and reconsider? Sometimes if the best decisions aren't made it can lead to further problems down the road. There have been a few less than ideal decisions regarding Eagle Heights Public School. Eagle Heights currently has such a vast boundary area and large student population. This makes it very difficult to consider making the whole school a feeder for one secondary school. There are only 540 students living in the neighbourhoods around Eagle Heights school. It doesn't make sense that students who live within walking distance of the school are going to be bussed through traffic and construction zones farther away when 600-700 students are being bussed into Eagle Heights from a whole other neighbourhood.
Sure it could make sense to designate Eagle Heights as a feeder for Central Secondary school if Eagle Heights Public School's boundary included Oxford Park, Sugar Creek, Cherry Hill, Blackfriars-Petersville and Downtown only.
The students living north of Oxford and West of Wonderland-they are closest to Banting. It's much easier for buses to get to Banting then bussing all of Eagle Heights into the downtown core to go to Central.
If the board had planned to build an elementary school for the near 700 students in Oakcrossing/ Beaverbrook/Capulet we wouldn't be dealing with the headaches and issues posed by the chronically overcrowded and possibly poised to become Mega School of Eagle Heights.
If you've got an elementary school that's headed to become a school of 1400-1500 students if the addition goes ahead and portables are added to accommodate the coming growth in this part of the city than it's difficult for this large of a school to feed into one secondary school.
This elementary school should be two elementary schools and then sure you could have one be a feeder for Banting and the other Central.
To note: Eagle Heights has very strong ties with Sir Frederick Banting. Sir Frederick Banting is the natural designate school for Eagle Heights currently. Banting would be considered Eagle Heights community school with students having visited the school for events and having Banting students visit Eagle Heights and represent their school.
The part of Eagle Heights boundary that currently has Central and Beal as it's home school are the areas that used to attend Empress Avenue Public School. This community has traditionally had strong ties with Central. When these students were sent to Oxford Park, Eagle Heights, their connection and attendance at Central has fallen off over time as students had fewer connections with Central had less exposure to Central and were not often encouraged to apply to Central from my understanding.
Response 413: The elementary panel attendance area review in London has concluded and there are no plans for further boundary changes to Eagle Heights PS at this time. The enrolment projections for secondary schools involved in the current review factor in both current and anticipated enrolment from the feeder elementary schools. A key objective of the review is to eliminate the splitting of elementary schools across multiple secondary sites.
Comment 412: The Beaverbrook/Oakcrossing neighbourhood deserves some respect, consultation and consideration. After never receiving the elementary school they were promised when they bought their homes and moved into that development...
They have no buses to TVDSB secondary schools and most have nearly 40 minute walks to their home TVDSB secondary school. Maybe the board needs to consider offering schoolbus transportation into that neighbourhood to get students to Oakridge or Banting. (Even though they don't qualify distance wise, they are sandwiched between the two railway lines so should maybe get special consideration.)
TVDSB should offer school bus transportation or consider this neighbourhood to be included as part of the new North London high school attendance area....Many students in this neighbourhood leave TVDSB for LDCSB as they get bussed to St. Andre Bessette.
Comment 411: Will London Central Secondary School be having a second school level meeting?
Response 411: This will depend on the desire of each school subcommittee. All of the meeting details are being communicated to secondary and elementary families and are also available here: https://www.tvdsb.ca/en/our-board/laar-secondary-school-related-news.aspx
Comment 410a: IS Central being closed permanently and being sold for its land?
Comment 410b: If Central wishes to add different boundaries then is the school itself prepared to add courses, programs and athletic programs that all the other schools have and Central does not? For example, SHSM, Hockey Program, Sports Medicine etc. More ARTS courses,
Comment 410c: Central's sports programs need bodies 700 by 2024 is not enough. Why is the board not examining splitting the LUCAS population up? Their sports programs are dominating and causing a drop out affect in many schools, coaches can't coach against stacked club player teams. This is not what education is for?
Response 410: London Central SS is not closing. The final attendance area review report and recommendations regarding boundary changes may be found here. London Central SS will continue to offer a range of programming for students. These programs will reflect the learning needs of students in the attendance area. Each secondary school in TVDSB offers different programs. Specialist High Skills Majors program offerings differ by school. Not all schools offer the same specialized programs. For example, only a limited number of schools have a hockey program or a sports medicine program. London Central SS offers unique social sciences programs and music programs that are not necessarily offered in other schools.
Comment 409: We currently reside in Komoka/Kilworth. My son will be starting high school, September 2024. Would boundary changes affect where he will attend high school? We are currently zoned for Medway. My daughter is a student at Medway and I would prefer they attend the same high school. I am unable to locate the map online of the potential affected areas. Thank you!
Response 409: There are no changes recommended to the feeder relationship between Delaware Central PS and Medway HS.
Comment 408: The west side of Upper Queens should be included in the Mountsfield school zone. It makes no sense for this side of the road to attend Cartier. Upper Queens is too busy of a street for children to be walking on. These residents should be included in the busing pickup for Mountsfield as well.
Response 408: This attendance area review relates to secondary school boundaries. Details regarding the elementary review that was completed in London in 2021-2022 are available here.
Comment 407: My child is attending this school as it was her feeder school however it looks by the maps she may not be the feeder area any longer. Will she be able to remain with her friends and resources until Gr 12? Will she be forced to attend a different school?
Response 407: Please note that the final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision making process.
Comment 406: Will this impact students starting in grade nine in 2023? Will students be able to choose other schools if there are programs offered elsewhere or if they want to go to school out of area for other reasons?
Response 406: The planned implementation year is 2024-2025. TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Please note that Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process. This would include students enrolling in secondary school for September 2023.
Comment 405: The email I received states review may affect where my children attend secondary school.
Attached documents are 505 pages long?! Is there any information regarding this that’s more easily accessible?
Response 405: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. The covering report and presentation include a summary of the recommendations. Please note that Lambeth PS is a designated feeder school to Saunders SS and this is not recommended to change.
Comment 404: I have 4 children. 2 will be at Saunders next year. Will younger siblings be grandfathered in for Saunders. It would be nice not to separate families.
Response 404: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. W. Sherwood Fox PS is recommended to be designated as a feeder school to Westminster SS.
Comment 403: So I’m still little confused, what high school are students from Sherwood Fox supposed to go to now?
Response 403: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. W. Sherwood Fox PS is recommended to be designated as a feeder school to Westminster SS as the preference is not to split up elementary school feeders.
Comment 402: Can the students at W. Sherwood Fox have the option to choose which high school to go to either Westminster SS or Saunders SS?
Response 402: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. Please note that Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 401: I am wondering why you are choosing to move a walkable community to a further school? From when I attended Saunders, there are already busses coming in from Lambeth etc. As from a previous response you said it would be an extra 3 minute drive. Why not relocate those busses coming into Saunders to Westminster i.e.) 3 minute longer bus ride, and keep the walking distance community (fox) to keep walking. I am sure with the expansion of housing in Lambeth and that area and down Exeter, there will be a need for a new high school eventually that way. This would eliminate moving Fox kids back to Saunders later?
Response 401: The recommended boundary changes are based on the realignment of various elementary school feeders to different secondary schools. Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the locations of some elementary schools and configurations of some attendance areas make it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while balancing enrolment across secondary schools comprehensively. Lambeth PS is also located further away from Westminster SS than W. Sherwood Fox PS.
Comment 400: From the special meeting held on May 30 regarding the LAARC , wording changes were proposed for recommendation #1. by Trustee Larsen. Will the revised wording be circulated to the public ahead of public delegation presentations on June 13?
Response 400: The revised recommendations will be presented to Trustees on June 27, 2023 after the receipt of additional public feedback.
Comment 399: Although my son is still very far away from registering for Secondary school, we insist that he will be attending London South Collegiate as I, his mother did as well as an extended list of family members.
If this decision is approved, he will be moved to the Catholic board and out of TVDSB. This is UNACCEPTABLE and will negatively affect so many student’s mental health!
Regards,
An unhappy mother
Comment 398: Does the TVDSB attendance area review also include a review of rural elementary school attendance to high schools? Is there a proposed change of boundary and area attendance for elementary schools that for example feed schools such as North Middlesex District High School, West Elgin Secondary School, Medway Secondary School, Strathroy District Collegiate Institute etc.
Thank you in advance
Response 398: The review included portions of the attendance areas of Medway HS, Lord Dorchester SS, and East Elgin SS. The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR
Comment 397: My son is going to be a student of Central secondary school next year. My daughter (currently is grade 5) is looking for the same opportunity in the nearest future. We are so proud to have such a great school here in London. Hence the news about boundaries changing is quite upsetting for our family. We hope you will keep the out of the area policy for Central with no change. I strongly believe kids should have best academic opportunities and Central is offering that. So again please keep status quo for Central secondary school.
Thank you for understanding
Members of future LCSS family
Comment 396: Please let the kids graduate in the school that they started, with Covid and with all the stress that they have been through this is the only thing as a parent I ask .
Comment 395: Our family has several children going to TVDSB schools. We live in the Cleardale area and specifically moved to the area because it fed to South Collegiate. Our eldest goes to South and enjoys it very much, and our other children were looking forward to also going there. What accommodations are being made for siblings of students at the affected rezoned schools? Is the plan to separate them, or will we be 'grandfathered' in to the existing system?
Response 395: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. Please note that Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 394: Do the boundary changes affect the Forest City Program?
Response 394: This boundary review would not affect the Forest City Program.
Comment 393: Will any of the area review make changes to students bused from outside London to attend special programs at London secondary schools, such as the BealArt 12+ program? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity not offered anywhere else in TVDSB.
Response 393: There are no changes proposed to H.B. Beal SS as part of this review.
Comment 392: Why are my kids supposed to go to Banting in the northwest end? Isn't it the schools in the northwest that are most over capacity? We don't even live in old north, we live in old south like the majority of Lord Roberts students. I think the boundaries should be changed!
Response 392: There are currently two secondary schools offering French Immersion programming in London, being Sir Frederick Banting SS and Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS. The proposal under consideration is to redistribute students from two schools to three, with a French Immersion program proposed at Clarke Road SS. This would provide enrolment pressure relief at the existing French Immersion sites.
Lord Roberts French Immersion PS is currently a feeder school to the French Immersion program at Sir Frederick Banting SS. This is not proposed to change through this review.
Comment 391: We have a sibling going to Medway already and do not agree with our second or third child attending a different school. It's absolutely not acceptable. We will fight this with everything we got.
Comment 390: What are the plans to keep East Elgin as a fully functioning Secondary School for the Aylmer students?
It would be a shame for my children to not have full access to funding they require due to the downsizing for the current school population.
This is key to our family in determining whether our children would continue to attend a Thames Valley School or a London Distric Catholic School Board high school.
Response 390: There are no programming changes planned for East Elgin SS as a result of this review and students would continue to have access to a wide range of course offerings.
In addition, please note that the recommendation is to maintain the boundaries of East Elgin SS as they curently are as a result of the public feedback that has been received through this review.
Comment 389: My daughter will be going to Saunders in September 2023 and my son goes there now. Would the changes affect them going to Saunders?
Response 389: Byron Southwood PS is a feeder school to Saunders SS and this is not proposed to change through this review.
Comment 388: What is the purpose of the attendance review, and what is the goal.
Response 388: The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. Balancing enrolment across schools will also position TVDSB more favourably for obtaining capital funding from the Ministry of Education for a new secondary school.
Comment 387:
- Will my kids be able to stay at south if our home high school changes to another school? They will be in gr. 11 & 12.
- Will my son be able to attend south for Gr. 9 if his sisters are already attending south?
Response 387: Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 386: What can be done to ensure that the students of Cedar Hollow can remain in the Medway or Lucas boundary?
Response 386: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This webpage includes information on submitting additional public input as part of this process and details regarding how members of the public can make a delegation to Trustees at the June 13, 2023 Special Board Meeting. Please note that public input submissions and delegation requests close on Wednesday, June 7 at 9am.
Comment 385: Is there any single document that provides an executive summary of proposals? I don't have time to sift through a hard to navigate web-site or watch a 1.5 hour long video to determine what the effects of your proposals are.
Response 385: The final report and recommendations are available here.
Comment 384: What school will our children be attending for the 2023-2024 school year?
Response 384: There are no changes proposed to elementary school boundaries as a result of this review. This area is currently designated to Sir Frederick Banting SS (for English track programming) and this is not proposed to change as part of this review.
Comment 383: Currently students attending Rick Hansen, Ashley Oaks and Whiteoaks Public Schools go to Westminster high school. Would this change under either of the proposals?
Response 383: Ashley Oaks PS, Rick Hansen PS, and White Oaks PS would become feeder schools to Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS under both options.
Comment 382: Where and when can we review the final recommendations in a written format?
Response 382: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This webpage includes information on submitting additional public input as part of this process and details regarding how members of the public can make a delegation to Trustees at the June 13, 2023 Special Board Meeting. Please note that public input submissions and delegation requests close on Wednesday, June 7 at 9am.
Comment 381: I live in Lucan. Will my child’s high school next year still be Medway? I understand Medway is affected. I just can’t find what the boundary proposals are.
Response 381: Wilberforce PS is currently designated as a feeder school to Medway HS and this is not proposed to change as part of this review. The final report and recommendations may be found here.
Comment 380: Hello I hope u gyuz can heard me I live at Tokala trail my nearest school is sir aurthur Currie public school but they r full they are not taking new kids but I live like 2 minutes walk from this school it will be realy helpful if my children can go to that’s school
Response 380: This attendance area review is for secondary schools.
Please note that a new elemenary school will be constructed in northwest London so that students in this area who are currently unable to attend Sir Arthur Currie PS will be able to attend the new school or Sir Arthur Currie PS, depending on their address. The attendance areas for these two elementary schools are shown here.
Comment 379: If my children do not continue in the secondary french program they would go to East Elgin. Why am I not receiving board communication on the LAAR when it impacts us.
Response 379: Secondary schools and their elementary feeders have been notified of the attendance area review, as is the usual process for this work. We appreciate the feedback and will review the notification process for future attendance area reviews.
Please note that the recommendation is to maintain the boundaries of East Elgin SS as they currently are as a result of the public feedback that has been received through consultation.
Comment 378: Could there be opportunities for students from certain elementary schools to decide between two high schools based on proximity to existing high school vs recommended high school according to the land area review? For example, many Sherwood Fox students, especially those in the neighbourhoods south and west of Steeplechase, are mere steps from Saunders. Could an elementary school located almost equally between two high schools be considered for either?
Response 378: Secondary school boundaries are based on elementary school feeders, with one of the purposes of the review being to avoid feeder split. Please note that the final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This webpage includes information on submitting additional public input as part of this process and details regarding how members of the public can make a delegation to Trustees at the June 13, 2023 Special Board Meeting. Please note that public input submissions and delegation requests close on Wednesday, June 7 at 9am.
Comment 377: For elementary schools like W. Sherwood Fox where their catchment proximity based on Elementary boundaries covers proximity to 2 different high schools could there be an option to pick which high school that you attend? For example: Those of us west and south of the school (ie. Fox mill, Village Green, Wonderland Rd. Townhouses and apartments) are steps, or blocks (under 5 or less) from Saunders but are now being zoned to Westminster.
Response 377: Secondary school boundaries are based on elementary school feeders, with one of the purposes of the review being to avoid feeder split. Please note that the final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This webpage includes information on submitting additional public input as part of this process and details regarding how members of the public can make a delegation to Trustees at the June 13, 2023 Special Board Meeting. Please note that public input submissions and delegation requests close on Wednesday, June 7 at 9am.
Comment 376: Are the current boundaries for Beal under review for the secondary attendance area review?
Response 376: There are no changes proposed to H.B. Beal SS as part of this review.
Comment 375: Direct Quote from the Saunders TVDSB Site "Why Choose Saunders"
"Saunders offers one of the most comprehensive selections of courses and programs in the Thames Valley District School Board. We have superb music, athletic and drama programs, as well as an incredible number of academic and technological courses. We invite students to become fully involved, to enjoy your education, and to share our pride in Saunders!"
A lot of families purchased their houses, in proximity to a school like Saunders that offers the specialized programing and "most comprehensive selections" For these families who are now being rezoned to Westminster that do not offer the same technology or other specialty programs can these families still select for specialty programming at Saunders?
Response 375: There are no changes to Emphasis Technology attendance areas as part of this review. Please visit the “Find My Local School” page found on the TVDSB website to confirm Emphasis Technology attendance areas. For other programming, students will continue to be able to apply to Saunders SS through the TVDSB’s out-of-area process, per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 374: Will any changes be made to make zoning areas more walkable and bikeable for high school students so they don't have to be driven or take the bus?
This would also be great since many of the extracurricular activities may fall before or after school and being able to walk or bike to or from after the regular scheduled school bus times would make those activities much more accessible with so many other health, climate, mental health benefits.
Response 374: The potential boundary changes are based on the realignment of various elementary school feeders to different secondary schools. Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the locations of some elementary schools and configurations of some attendance areas make it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while balancing enrolment across secondary schools comprehensively. The final report and recommendations are available here.
Comment 373: My child is enrolled for the 2023-2024 school year at Saunders Secondary. My home address is literally across the street from Saunders Secondary school, and do not see why my child would have to change schools when I am a 5 minute walk to the school, 10 minutes if we have to wait at the intersection lights of Wonderland Rd S & Viscount Road. My question is, when a student has less than 15 minute to school, why transfer them to a school to which they would they have to go to a school where they would have a 30-40 minute walk and no other option for transportation? Especially if they are enrolled in a program that is specific to that school I.e. a trades program
Response 373: The potential boundary changes are based on the realignment of various elementary school feeders to different secondary schools. Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the locations of some elementary schools and configurations of some attendance areas make it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while balancing enrolment across secondary schools comprehensively. The distance from W. Sherwood Fox PS to Westminster SS is approximately 1.5 km further than it is to Saunders SS (which equates to ~3 minute drive), with a portion of the W. Sherwood Fox PS attendance area being located closer to Westminster SS than it is to Saunders SS.
There are no changes to Emphasis Technology attendance areas as part of this review. Please visit the “Find My Local School” page found on the TVDSB website to confirm Emphasis Technology attendance areas.
Comment 372: We now live out of the Attendance Area and while we have submitted documentation to the school, we hope to remain in the school as my children are both entering their final year of high school in September. We were only recently notified that this will most likely not be possible but this notification was made through our children and no official channels. If this decision is made, how/when will we be notified and what appeal process exists to overturn that decision so my children's education isn't disrupted.
Response 372: The final report and recommendations are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This webpage includes information on submitting additional public input as part of this process and details regarding how members of the public can make a delegation to Trustees at the June 13, 2023 Special Board Meeting. Please note that public input submissions and delegation requests close on Wednesday, June 7 at 9am. The final decision is planned for the June 27, 2023 Board meeting. Please note that any boundary changes would not take effect until September 2024 and that Trustees will be considering permitting existing students and their siblings to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 371: Having two children who were not served well by the TVDSB Re zoning of French immersion boundaries, I would like to highlight a few points that should receive some attention as these plans are laid out. First, please consider how this adjustment will affect students who already have a longer commute, for example, from rural communities. The distance travelled not only affects the child’s daily commute but also their ability to fully participate in before and after school activities. Long commute times/distances increase the equity divide for families that rely on public transportation or have limited means of travel. Second, please ensure sibling groups are not forced to attend separate schools, arrange to keep sibling groups together, even if it is determined that a sibling’s age cohort is the cut-off for boundary changes. Having children attend multiple schools across boundaries can place undue stress on families. Third, please consider how school day start times may negatively affect children who have to travel farther to attend school. If a boundary change means that a child will have to attend a school with an earlier start time and accommodate a longer commute, it may actually create an unnecessary hardship for the child with unreasonable wake-up times in order to catch a bus. Please consider shorter bus routes for these students if this scenario is unavoidable. Thanks for your attention in these matters.
Comment 370: I believe Pearson has been left off of the feeder for Central (that needs to be changed). Furthermore, I believe my daughter would attend Central based upon our house geography, can that be confirmed?
Response 370: Pearson does not have an attendance area and admission is application-based. TVDSB’s historic practice has been to permit Pearson students to attend Central SS or their home school. The initial options contemplate having all Pearson students attend their designated secondary school based on their home elementary school, which is consistent with what is being considered for other schools involved in this review. Students would continue to have the option to attend Central SS for programming-based reasons (e.g., enrolling in the strings program). We are seeking the community’s feedback regarding this potential arrangement.
The attendance area of Old North PS, is a designated feeder school to Central SS and H.B. Beal SS. This is not proposed to change through this review.
Comment 369: Will my child be able to finish their high school career at Banting? They are in grade 10 going into grade 11. It looks like our home address would be included in the new Clark Road boundary. This is stressful for them because they have a large group of friends who would not be moving school.
Response 369: The feasibility of offering legacy agreement options for existing students to remain at current schools is being explored. Trustees will consider these as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 368: My daughter attends grade 9 at LDSS. I’m having trouble finding any information online about how the attendance changes will affect her. Could you please explain what’s going on??
Response 368: A summary of the options under consideration is available here. Interactive maps that illustrate the potential changes, searchable by address, are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 367: I'm very concerned about how the proposed boundary changes to East Elgin will affect my children (currently in Grades 6, and 4) and their education. I would like to know the reason for the proposed change and the plan for students in the affected areas? The closest high schools to us, if East Elgin is unable to provide my children with adequate educational programming are 20 minute (St. Thomas) and 30 minute (Tillsonburg) bus rides away. Many children their age live on our road and will also be affected by these changes. I did receive an email that we live in the affected area and was unable to attend the meeting on May 15th.
Response 367: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. Please note that there are no other changes being contemplated for East Elgin SS as part of this review. Summers’ Corners PS would not be impacted. An interactive map at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR (under Potential Options) shows the boundary changes for which feedback is being sought, and this map is searchable by address.
Comment 366: Why cant you just leave well enough alone... leave EESS leave South Dorchester PS alone... by adding closing the schools their going to be no help for those children that need extra and special assistance. Their is absolutely zero need to close those schools.. just leave well enough alone... this is absolutely ridiculous.
...Leave South Dorchester school boundaries alone. Period.
Response 366: There are no plans to close any schools as part of this boundary review. The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. Please note that there are no other changes being contemplated for East Elgin SS as part of this review.
Comment 365: When looking at the future predictions of how many students will be attending east Elgin in 2028/2029 east Elgin has the lowest number of predicted students attending out of the whole TVDSB. This than means our children will not be offered adequate classes nor will they have funding for teachers or all the things they need to succeed throughout their high school years. This is not fair to take away from just one school! The number of predicted students should be more even throughout TVDSB. As you are aware if the number of students drop below 75% than the students classes and programs as well as teacher get cut. In your prediction east Elgin is only at 76% to leave the school in such a high risk situation of only 1% is completely unfair to the students and teachers. Please take this in to consideration.
Comment 364: My child attended LB Pearson and applied for programming only offered at Beal. If boundaries are adjusted and current students out of boundary are removed, there will be catastrophic mental health and peer issues for students who were forced into 2 plus years of isolation prior to entering highschool. Now that these bonds are mending, you would cast them out? Is there 100% funded exact programming at all schools in terms of arts, music, drama and robotics? NO. So you would take away courses depending on where a student lives...Let's let a few years of kids returning to being kids happen before we rock that mental health boat...
Response 364: Thanks for your note. There are no changes being considered to the attendance area or program offerings at H.B. Beal SS as part of this review. Students will continue to be able to apply to take specialized programs at H.B. Beal regardless of their designated home school.
Comment 363: I’m not sure why this is even happening. After a hard few years of COVID and online learning now these kids are finally experiencing a normal school year and high school year. How can you even think putting these poor high school students and up coming students through this change and moving some from their friends. It is not easy making friends in high school and now you want them to be removed to a new environment. The Belmont High School kids doing to LDSS is not even doing to benefit them. They do not offer nearly the programming that is available at EESS. The kids being able to go to EESS is the best option for all learning levels since they offer the most programs, technology programs along with trades so the kids can get the experience and many different opportunities to further there skills and get the opportunity to have the best high school experience. LDSS does not offer near the programs. So please tell me how this is a good idea. LDSS will be over capacity within the next year if this happens. Stop changing things on the kids and leave them where they are in a great school with their friends. Enough of this change for these poor kids. Let them have a say!
Comment 362: I am very concerned about moving students from Banting's French Immersion School to other locations. Very concerned. These kids have lived through some of the most difficult times at school and at home during the COVID-19 pandemic and are just starting to recover from the mental health repercussions. To move them would be to add additional and unnecessary stresses to their lives. I strongly oppose it.
My daughter is just starting to adjust to school and friends. To move her would have enormous mental health consequences.
While I understand that the school board has to deal with infrastructure constraints, they need to put the needs of kids FIRST. Above all. That is the mandate given to schools. I think a legacy arrangement should be a priority that would give students who already attend secondary schools included in the review the option of remaining and graduating at their current school. Otherwise established friendships and social networks would be disrupted.
Comment 361: I would like to have the option to send my children to Central Secondary School. I hope that TVDSB keeps the option to send out-of-area kids to Central.
Comment 360: I am not sure if they are looking to change the boundary lines for my child's school... However, I would like a voice into getting my child a legacy agreement until their graduation. Thank you.
Comment 359a: The percentage of students who enter the FI program and achieve DELF certification?
Comment 359b: Can we get the number of attempts and passes for the DELF exam (both B1 and B2) for Banting, Laurier, Strathroy, WCI and Parkside?
Comment 359c: How many students took the DELF exam in 2021-22 from each of the existing 5 TVDSB FI high schools (Strathroy, Woodstock, Parkside, Laurier, and Banting), and at what levels (A1/A2; B1/B2)? The March 7, 2023, presentation to the Program and Schools Services Advisory Committee only provides global numbers for the FI high schools (slide 53 - pasted below).
Core French
| Level A1 | 12 |
| Level A2 | 62 |
| Level B1 | 98 |
| Level B2 | 18 |
| Total: | 190 |
French Immersion
| Level A1 | 0 |
| Level A2 | 2 |
| Level B1 | 85 |
| Level B2 | 108 |
| Total: | 195 |
Response 359: Approximately 50% of students who challenge the DELF are in French Immersion and 50% are in Core French. In general, students in French Immersion challenge the DELF at higher levels than those in Core French. We are not able to provide the success rates by school.
Comment 358: I disagree with the rezoning of boundaries and the effect it will take on EESS and future generations of our Aylmer area.
Comment 357a: As essential as they are in providing for cities, rural communities all too often are invisible to the urban population. Since the amalgamation of the school boards in the 1990's, rural students have seen their schools closed and their bus rides creep closer to the City of London. Once again...we are witnessing another attempt by the Thames Valley District School Board (TVDSB) to change borders and move our students.
The constant absorption of rural schools to the cities is inching us closer to yet more school closures. Most recently East Elgin Secondary School (EESS). We understand that TVDSB is mandated to project the school populations 12 years ahead, yet should this be implemented EESS, a school with no capacity issues (currently at 96%), will drop to 86% capacity in 2024-25. Just a few years later, the 2028-29 school year will see a drop to 76% capacity. 1% away from risk of closure. This while understanding that every approximately 2 dozen students lost is 1 teacher and 4 classes gone, and who knows what programs and extracurricular activities would be closed, it is easy to believe that EESS would soon risk closure...
...We do not accept this new boundary change and respectfully request it be scrapped. Do better for the 1000's of children whose needs are vastly different from the urban schools. Better yet, come see and learn just how incredible education is at EESS. High schools like this are rare. The community impact of these changes will be great...
Comment 357b: What is the plan for students attending East Elgin in the future when the declining enrollment caused by these boundary changes reduces the funding to the school, and the quality of programming for rural students, or leads to a school closure? A reduction of 300 students, results in a significant decrease in funding. My children will begin attending East Elgin in 2025, and 2027. Summers Corners students may not be affected now, but they will be in the future. This is my concern.
Response 357: As the attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school extends into the City of London and is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS, East Elgin SS was included in this review. We would like to obtain feedback regarding potentially eliminating this secondary school boundary split. This would keep student cohorts from the Belmont elementary school attendance area together as they transition to secondary school. If it was to be implemented in September of 2024, a utilization decrease from 93% to 86% is expected from this change at East Elgin SS. The utilization at Lord Dorchester SS would increase from 99% to approximately 110%.
Trustees will consider all feedback received prior to making any decisions. Please note that there are no other changes being contemplated for East Elgin SS as part of this review. There are no programming changes planned for East Elgin SS as a result of the potential boundary change and there are no plans to close the school.
Comment 356a: We will absolutely not be splitting up our three kids into different high schools. They will all be going to the same high school, which is Medway. We will fight this very hard. Its not acceptable.
Comment 356b: We will absolutely NOT be splitting up the siblings into different high schools. We will fight this! We have one at Medway and will not be sending the next one anywhere else, but Medway! Absolutely NOT!!!
Response 356: Please note that legacy agreements for existing students to remain at current schools (with siblings) is being reviewed and will be considered as part of Trustees’ decision-making process.
Comment 355: Will there be some exceptions made for children who are currently attending Clara Brenton to stay with their peer group and attend Oakridge, or will they be forced to go to Banting? Will any exceptions be made to allow siblings to stay together, or will we have to drive students to two different schools each day?
Response 355: Thanks for your correspondence. The attendance area of Clara Brenton PS is currently split between Oakridge SS and Sir Frederick Banting SS. The potential changes consider eliminating this split and designating all students to attend Oakridge SS. The attendance area review report and presentation include details regarding this potential change.
Please note that legacy agreements for existing students to remain at current schools (with siblings) is being reviewed and will be considered as part of Trustees’ decision-making process.
Comment 355: The boundary change for East Elgin Secondary School does not make sense!
Students should not be bused that far for who knows how long to go to school. The travel will put them at risk during winter months and during fog and heavy rain. This boundary change will cause more anxiety in the kids because they will be home less due to travel time, anxiety will be increased due to fear of travel during inclement weather. The bus companies have been struggling to find drivers as it is! How the heck are they going to find all these additional drivers? Have any of the board of directors driven these roads daily year round? Do you really want a large number of new young drivers driving themselves to school? Because kids do that here! I sure don’t want anything to happen to any of the kids in my community.
East Elgin secondary school is in an ideal location for many rural communities. It’s ideal because kids spend less time on the bus, if there is inclement weather parents are able to get their kids to school if they choose.
The kids have a short bus ride and are schooled in their community!!! Where they belong! It’s time that the kids and their families are put first.
Comment 354: Forcing West Nissouri students to only have 1 option for a high school is bringing anxiety to many students that use this opportunity to separate from their bullies. We want to be able to go to Medway, not Dorchester. It gives our kids more opportunities. Even though we are in the country, our neighbour goes to Medway. If he and his sister can get on the bus, my kids should be able to. It’s absurd if our students do not have a choice. We have been with bullying since grade 1. Soon to be entering grade 7, my daughter was looking forward to a fresh start away from them. If this opposite taken away from her, her mental health will be effected.
Comment 353: Please leave the attendance review alone. No need to change it. I will be pulling my children out if it is switched. They need to go to East Elgin Secondary School. Period.
Comment 352: I support Scenario 1 where Central continues the status quo. Many families want to send their children to Central, and it would be unfair to limit enrolment to wealthy families that can afford to live near Central. At least with the lottery system some low income families have a chance at improving their child's education.
Comment 351: I would like to voice my opinion on the current boundary change that is being tabled for EESS.
I do not agree with this change at all!! There are so many issues with this potential change! Our students would be on the bus longer. This would impact them greatly as they will have less time at home and would make it harder for these students to work part time jobs. These part time jobs, for some, is the only means of financially being able to attend college. It would remove them from their community and friends putting a great strain on their social lives which greatly impacts their mental health and wellbeing.
The strain of this boundary change will also impact the students families. A lot of these families rely on these students to help care for their younger siblings after school. This will put more financial strain on the families. I’m these tough financial times it’s not fair for anymore burden to be placed on our families. Our students, our families and our community’s needs need to be come first.
Time to stop and think about what impact this will have on those impacted by this change.
Change isn’t always in everyone’s best interest.
Comment 350: If we are zoned to Montcalm, we will be moving to the Catholic school board
Comment 349: DO NOT separate siblings. Absolutely nobody agrees to this...
Comment 348: I disagree with the rezoning of boundaries and the effect it will take on EESS and future generations of our Aylmer area.
Comment 347: Do you have school-specific percentages of the number of students proceeding to universities?
Response 347: This data is not available at this time.
Comment 346: Is enrolment from housing growth included?
Response 346: Enrolment from housing growth is factored into the projections with specific pupil yields assigned in each attendance area based on the type of housing being constructed. In addition to utilizing municipal growth forecasts, our team works very closely with planning staff across the entire district, including the City of London, and tracks residential development applications that are required to be circulated to school boards in accordance with the Planning Act. All of this data informs our enrolment projections.
Comment 345: How do we know the data and projections that are the basis of your report are accurate? Where does this forecasted data come from? What are the methodologies used?
Response 345: The Board retained Watson and Associates (Watson) to assist with this attendance area review. Watson’s enrolment projections are typically completed as two separate components – enrolment of the existing community and enrolment expected from new housing growth. The enrolment projections of the existing community are based on a scenario of no new housing growth and examine projected enrolment of the existing population. The projections of enrolment from new housing focus on pupils that are generated from expected new housing developments.
The prediction of school enrolment involves the consideration of a wide range of factors. There are three common methods of enrolment projection: rate of growth, enrolment ratios, and grade transition. The rate of growth method assumes that past rates of enrolment growth or decline will carry forward. In today’s changing demographic and economic landscape this method of enrolment forecasting is unreliable. The enrolment ratio method is used to look at historical ratios of school enrolment compared with the overall population and then carry forward these ratios, or make assumptions about new ratios, and apply them to a population forecast. The grade transition method is used to examine historical progression rates from grade to grade and make assumptions about the retention of grades from one year to the next.
Watson used a combination of the latter two methodologies – enrolment ratio and grade transition – in conjunction with robust demographic background data and historical TVDSB enrolment to produce the enrolment forecast. The enrolment projection methodology focuses on the relationships between demographic trends and actual historical enrolment. The basis of the assumptions for future trends comes from the analysis of these historical relationships.
A demographic profile is compiled for each school or planning area using data from the 2001, 2006, 2011, 2016 and 2021 Censuses. Trends in the demographic data are used to highlight changes in population. Examining these historical trends assists in providing perspective and direction when determining future assumptions for the projections.
The secondary enrolment projections are based largely on the elementary projections and how the elementary students transition into the secondary panel. Each secondary school of the board is assigned feeder elementary schools which form a community of schools based on board data. As grade 8 students graduate, they are assigned to their respective secondary schools. If grade 8 students can attend more than one secondary school, they are then allocated based on recent trends. The other important variable that is considered in the secondary enrolment projection methodology is the impact of the fifth year of secondary school being eliminated in 2003/04. The elimination of the fifth year of study does not mean that grade 12 students are not allowed to come back for a fifth year of study. There are still instances where grade 12 students may come back to finish the four-year program in five years or to upgrade or retake certain courses. The percentage of students that are coming back for a fifth year varies throughout the Province and even from school to school within a board. The projections in this analysis typically utilize a three-year average of grade 12 retention rates (putting greater emphasis on the last year or two). The remainder of the secondary projection follows the same methodology used in the elementary projections. Grades are advanced by applying historical grade transition rates for each school in the system. Assumptions are derived using historical ratios of enrolment to population and are used to ensure that projected secondary enrolment relates back to the projected secondary populations.
The second phase of the enrolment projection methodology involves predicting housing growth in the study area and its impact on school enrolment. The residential unit forecast is used as the basis to predict future school enrolment from growth. Historical levels of occupancy by school-aged children and by housing type provide factors and trends that allow assumptions to be made about how new units might produce children in the future.
Each unit in the residential forecast is multiplied by a factor to predict the number of school-aged children that will come from the projected number of units. Pupil yields were derived for both the elementary and secondary schools, for low-, medium- and high-density housing types across TVDSB’s jurisdiction. The pupil yields and trends can vary significantly from area to area in a board’s jurisdiction. In this way, factors are derived and applied to the appropriate growth forecast to get an estimate of school-aged children from new development. Using historical apportionment and population participation rates, the enrolment forecast then captures the appropriate share of pupils expected from new development for TVDSB.
Comment 344: Why are new schools opening up with portables already on site?
Response 344: Please note that the Ministry of Education does not fund new schools at a size that would accommodate the peak of enrolment projected for an area. School boards are expected to manage enrolment pressures through the use of portables until an area matures and enrolment stabilizes. The Ministry has many competing priorities for new capital projects across the Province so it often takes several years before a business case for a new school is approved. It then takes approximately 36 months (based on current timelines) to progress through additional construction approval processes and to build the school.
Comment 343: As per the report, 13% of A.B Lucas attendance area students (139 students) are attending Central S.S. Currently, Cedar Hollow P.S. is the feeder school for A.B Lucas, where approx. 40-50 students in grade 7 are expected to join A.B Lucas in 2024-25 as some may join Central S.S., or Mother Teresa Catholic S.S. for Grade 9.
In Scenario – 1, approximately a similar percentage of students from A.B Lucas will continue going to Central S.S. The space created can easily accommodate Cedar Hollow P.S. students as students from other attendance areas will return to their respective secondary schools, making more space.
With such a small number, is it wise to disturb Cedar Hollow P.S. students when the numbers do not support the proposed shifting to Montcalm S.S.?
Response 343: Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The utilization for A.B. Lucas SS under a status quo scenario (if no interventions are made, is projected to be 137% in the 2024-2025 school year). The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. Balancing enrolment across schools will also position TVDSB more favourably for obtaining capital funding from the Ministry of Education for a new secondary school. Please note that both status quo and scenario projections for schools involved in the review are available via the report and presentation available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 342: As per the plan shared, it appears that TVDSB is in the process of establishing North East S.S., and Cedar Hollow P.S. will be a feeder school for it. This new school is expected to start by the year 2027-28. This means there will be another relocation of children and families.
Can all efforts be put towards expediting the process of establishing NE S.S. earlier than anticipated so that the children of Cedar Hollow are not relocated again but once?
Response 342: In order to position the community favourably for new capital investment from the Ministry of Education in the form of a new secondary school, our existing available student spaces must be used efficiently. This will also help reduce reliance on portable classrooms. Please note that a location for a new north London secondary school has not yet been determined.
Obtaining approval from the Ministry and building the new school will take several years. Similarly to the current review, legacy agreement options for students to remain at current schools will be a consideration when a boundary needs to be created for the new north London secondary school.
Comment 341: I request all Trustees to support our children as they trust you will do all possible efforts to protect their future, safeguard their dreams and serve this community to the best of your abilities.
Due to the planned LAAR for secondary schools, families and children are in utter distress. It concerns the future of our children stepping into the desired field. Joining a secondary school is a significant milestone in journeying towards a focused path to their future careers.
With inflation, post-COVID situations and rising interest rates, families are under tremendous stress already. With the proposed review options for Cedar Hollow P.S. families, all we are left to do is, sell our houses and move to a location where our child can be in a school they were otherwise supposed to enrol into, as has been over the last many years.
Secondary School children are not like Elementary School children who will go anywhere we will ask them to go, and we must recognize this as parents, teachers, and trustees because they trust us.
I am sure that respectable Trustees and the board will consider my submissions while deciding our children’s future. With the request to keep a status quo for Cedar Hollow P.S. It is the way forward, and I am sure you all can take our voice to the next level to make this logical request to a desired conclusion.
Comment 340: Why are you choosing to put one school, with no issues in regard to capacity (EESS), at 76% capacity, by 2028/29, and another school (LDSS) to 125% capacity, by 2028/29? We have all been in the split schools and it has not done any of us harm. What you are proposing, to put one school under capacity and another school over capacity, does not do any child any favours, in either school.
Response 340: The potential boundary change for East Elgin SS that is out for public consultation is eliminating the secondary attendance area split for the new Belmont elementary school. This is similar to the consultation we are undertaking regarding the elimination of other boundary splits of schools involved in this review. Eliminating feeder splits would keep student cohorts together as they progress from elementary to secondary school. If implemented, the change in utilization at East Elgin SS that would result in 2024-2025 (year of implementation) would be a decrease from 93% to 86%, per the Attendance Area Review Committee presentation that all subcommittees have also been sharing with their school communities (please see table below). The utilization at Lord Dorchester SS would increase from 99% to approximately 110% in 2024-2025 should this change be implemented. Please note that the use of strategic timetabling and the fact that some students do no take full course loads allow schools to operate above the capacity of the building without being overcrowded and this has been the case at various secondary schools across the district.
PROPOSED ENGLISH TRACK SCENARIOS COMPARED
| Attending School |
OTG (Loading at 21) |
Status Quo | Scenario 1 (Retain Central SS students at Central SS) |
| A.B. Lucas SS | 1,188 | 1,623 | 1,515 |
| Central SS | 786 | 1,173 | 1,050 |
| Clarke Road SS | 1,545 | 1,113 | 1,701 |
| East Elgin SS | 1,155 | 1,077 | 988 |
| H.B. Beal SS | 1,857 | 1,932 | 1,864 |
| London South CI | 651 | 819 | 702 |
| Lord Dorchester SS | 651 | 644 | 708 |
| Medway HS | 1,233 | 1,677 | 1,411 |
| Montcalm SS | 1,251 | 1,092 | 1,394 |
| Oakridge SS | 909 | 1,058 | 922 |
| Saunders SS | 1,938 | 2,359 | 2,001 |
| Sir Frederick Banting SS | 1,308 | 1,894 | 1,750 |
| Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS | 1,098 | 1,131 | 1,323 |
| Westminster SS | 1,095 | 727 | 933 |
| Total | 16,665 | 18,319 | 18,262 |
| Attending School |
OTG (Loading at 21) |
Status Quo | Scenario 1 (Retain Central SS students at Central SS) |
| A.B. Lucas SS | 1,188 | 137% | 128% |
| Central SS | 786 | 149% | 134% |
| Clarke Road SS | 1,545 | 72% | 110% |
| East Elgin SS | 1,155 | 93% | 86% |
| H.B. Beal SS | 1,857 | 104% | 100% |
| London South CI | 651 | 126% | 108% |
| Lord Dorchester SS | 651 | 99% | 109% |
| Medway HS | 1,233 | 136% | 114% |
| Montcalm SS | 1,251 | 87% | 111% |
| Oakridge SS | 909 | 116% | 101% |
| Saunders SS | 1,938 | 122% | 103% |
| Sir Frederick Banting SS | 1,308 | 145% | 134% |
| Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS | 1,098 | 103% | 121% |
| Westminster SS | 1,095 | 66% | 85% |
| Total | 16,665 | 18,319 | 18,262 |
Comment 339: What are the impacts on bussing from the two options under consideration?
Response 339:
English Track Scenario 1 (includes establishment of French Immersion program at Clarke Road SS)
- Sir Frederick Banting SS: a reduction of 5 buses is expected
- Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS: no change in the number of buses is expected
- Clarke Road SS: an increase of 9 buses is expected
- Central SS: an increase of 1 bus is expected
- East Elgin SS: a decrease of 2 buses is expected
- Lord Dorchester SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- A.B. Lucas SS: an increase of 1 bus is expected
- Medway HS: a decrease of 4 buses is expected
- Montcalm SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- Oakridge SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- Saunders SS: an increase of 1 bus is expected
- London South CI: no change in the number of buses is expected
- Westminster SS: a decrease of 1 bus is expected
- Summary: a net increase of 6 buses is expected
English Track Scenario 2 (includes establishment of French Immersion program at Clarke Road SS)
- Sir Frederick Banting SS: a reduction of 7 buses is expected
- Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS: no change in the number of buses is expected
- Clarke Road SS: an increase of 9 buses is expected
- Central SS: an increase of 7 buses is expected
- East Elgin SS: a decrease of 2 buses is expected
- Lord Dorchester SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- A.B. Lucas SS: an increase of 3 buses is expected
- Medway HS: a decrease of 4 buses is expected
- Montcalm SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- Oakridge SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- Saunders SS: an increase of 1 bus is expected
- London South CI: a decrease of 2 buses is expected
- Westminster SS: an increase of 2 buses is expected
- Summary: a net increase of 13 buses is expected
Comment 338: Which secondary schools offer music programs (vocal, strings, Band)? How many students are enrolled in each music specialty at each high school that offers a music program? How many of these students enrolled in the music programs are out of area at each high school that offers music?
Response 338: All our Secondary Schools offer instrumental music. Music programs like Guitar, Strings, and Vocal Music are offered at some sites, but not all. These offerings can fluctuate from year to year, based on student enrolment choices. Out of Area students have access to the full range of programs in the school they are accepted at, space permitting.
Comment 337: Which secondary schools offer Advanced Placement courses?
Response 337: Participation in advanced placement courses can be coordinated in any of our secondary schools through the Guidance department and school administration but are not part of the regular course offerings in Thames Valley.
Comment 336:
- What date in June is the meeting to decide boundary changes occurring?
- I would like to know if this is the only item on the agenda? This is a very serious issue that requires time to discuss. I have watched board meeting before and they often go very late and have too many items on the agenda. It is clear that this is a big issue and there is time now to make a decision to have this item as one of the few items to be discussed at this very important meeting.
- When will the parents be notified of the decision of the board and how?
Response 336: School communities will be notified of the date that the final attendance area review report will be presented to Trustees via School Messenger. A link to the report will also be provided, including the process for seeking delegation status at a subsequent, follow-up meeting of the Board that will be held in order to receive additional public input. The decision will be made at a separate meeting. The dates are being finalized and the agendas for these meetings have not yet been set.
Once a decision is made, all affected secondary and elementary school communities will be notified. Should any families be required to switch schools, they will be contacted directly in advance of the implementation of the decision.
Comment 335: Hi, My son is currently in Grade 7 at Northridge PS, after a year he will be ready for high school. According to our home address we come under AB Lucas high school, so wanted to know if this attendance area will affect our admission to Lucas or not? Thank you.
Response 335: Northridge PS would continue to be an elementary feeder to A.B. Lucas SS under both options being considered.
Comment 334: Are there a number of international students who come to London to learn English with businesses in downtown London who attend London Central Secondary School?
If so, how many? Do these businesses and English programs know about the proposed changes? Do these students pay tuition fees to the board or no? The downtown businesses pay property taxes which contribute to funding for education.
Response 334: There are 18 fee-paying international students currently at Central SS.
Comment 333: Has the board researched and considered a more central location for the new North London Secondary School?
A more centrally located Secondary School would ease enrollment pressure at Banting and other North London schools. It would also fit with a plan for a more sustainable, healthy, environmental City of London. (rather than possibly contributing to urban sprawl, loss of farmland and the city expanding northward) London is a fast-growing city. A lot of people find it a nice-sized city and easy to get around. What kind of city do we want moving forward? A bigger city with a lot of traffic where it takes a lot of time to get from one end of the city to the other? Or do we want a healthy city, sustainable, environmental with great schools in the neighbourhoods where students live that also respects and values the importance of farmland and greenspace in and around our city?
Response 333: A location for a new secondary school in North London has not been finalized. It would be located within the settlement area boundary and in an area that requires it in order to support the growth of the community. The location could be in north-central London but this has not yet been determined. In selecting sites, TVDSB’s objectives include maximizing the number of students who would be able to walk to school in order to reduce reliance on school bus transportation and private vehicles.
Comment 332: In this process can there be surveys sent out to the feeder schools for the north west and north east in this process to see realistically how many students/families intend to have their children attend a TVDSB high school? Especially since there apparently is a business case for a new high school in the north.
Response 332: At this time, there are no plans for such a survey. The presentation prepared as part of the initial attendance area review report includes details regarding the number of elementary and secondary school students in north London as well as the projected population growth. The enrolment projections for this area warrant a new school based on TVDSB’s board-share of students and the utilization of existing secondary schools.
Comment 331: With programming moving from Wheable to B. Davison, could this not open up an opportunity for a French Immersion high school?
Comment 216 was asking about a French Immersion only high school but the response given did not address that.
Response 331: At this time, there are no plans to establish a single-track French Immersion high school at G.A. Wheable.
Comment 330: We live near Oakridge SS and have been accepted into London Central SS at the beginning of Grade 9 on Sept. 2023. Once a boundary change is put in place in 2024, should my kids have to return from Central to Oakridge for the rest years in high school (G10 - 12)?
As the response 152 mentioned in Q&A, "Trustees may consider legacy agreements for current students to attend prior schools as part of their decision-making process", it sounds like it would be not mandatory for out of area students to move to their boundary school. Could you please provide us with more details about Legacy agreement options?
Response 330: Legacy agreements would allow students in specific grades, as determined by Trustees through the decision-making process, to continue attending current secondary schools until graduation.
Comment 329: Removing Lester B Pearson PS as a feeder school to Central SS, and requiring all to go to their home secondary schools, is contradictory to the stated LAAR/Board objective of "students having the opportunity to develop and maintain relationships for their entire K-12 education experience". (direct quote from the document).
Centering out Pearson students exclusively with no option of a secondary school to attend as a cohort to maintain their community is inequitable. All students are afforded an opportunity to stay together as a community as per the LAAR/Board objectives - however both proposed options take this away from Pearson students ONLY.
Suggesting that "Pearson students can apply for specialized programs. eg strings" is not addressing the fundamental student equity issue of Pearson being the ONLY school with no opportunity to stay together.
Please explain why Pearson students are being treated inequitably in a board that promotes equity, diversity and inclusion?
Response 329: One of the objectives of the attendance area review is to eliminate home school feeder splits in situations where elementary schools are designated to multiple secondary schools based on geography. Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts does not have an attendance area and historically students have been able to attend Central SS or their home school. Students who wish to continue with their peers to pursue specific programs would still be able to do so on an application basis. We encourage you to also provide this feedback to the Central SS subcommittee in order for it to be included in the school community input report.
Comment 328a: What are the benefits of splitting the FI program other than just filling a school? Why would you split a program that seems not to be growing exponentially like the English program? Why would they choose LAFI to be the feeder school given the boundaries are so large and extend all the way to Lucan would not a school that's boundaries include kids in the city like Lord Robarts be a better fit as all the students attending this school are in the city boundaries. Also, Lord Robarts school is 7.7km from Clarke Road High School whereas LAFI is 8.4 Km away. It seems to me this decision is strictly based on filling a school and nothing else.
Comment 328b: Why are we not moving the English students to different schools? Has that even been considered?
Response 328: Thanks for your email. Given the enrolment pressures at secondary schools in northwest London, no boundary changes can be made between English track schools in this area to provide enrolment pressure relief to Banting. In addition to the potential French Immersion changes being considered for Laurier, there are English track changes being explored here as well. Redistributing the French Immersion program from 2 sites to 3 sites would create much-needed student spaces at Banting and Laurier while at the same time establish a French Immersion facility in an area currently without such a program. We would encourage you to please provide feedback regarding potential feeder school realignments to the Banting subcommittee in order that it may be included for consideration as part of the school community input report.
Comment 327: I would love to be able to have the option of having my child attend Lord Dorchester with school bus transportation. My question is, why can't those in Dorchester choose between Lord Dorchester or East Elgin instead of it being only the one option? Lord Dorchester is certainly closer to drive for many of us and has many great options, but East Elgin also has great options, and for those who want to play sports they would have the ability to play football which is a big deal to many!
Response 327: We would also encourage you to please provide this input to the Lord Dorchester and East Elgin subcommittees so that it may be included in their respective school community reports.
Comment 326: I will have a daughter going into Grade 11 when this proposed change is to happen. We live in Belmont. Will these kids have the choice to stay at East Elgin with provided transportation?
Half way through high school would be a terrible time to force them to change schools. They are part of clubs, sport teams and not to mention strong friend groups. They know the teachers and the teachers know them. It seems if all these kids from Belmont go it will put LDSS over capacity and EESS under capacity. Could the Belmont kids, new to high school or already there be given the choice of where to attend?
I would strongly request at minimum the kids who have started at EESS get to stay there if desired.
Response 326: Trustees will consider legacy agreement options for students to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process. School subcommittees have been encouraged to provide feedback on potential legacy agreements as part of the school community reports that are being prepared.
Comment 325: Other than telling students to attend the LAAR meetings at secondary schools, how is the board gathering feedback from students who are directly affected by these changes? Specifically, how is the board gathering feedback from secondary students who will need to change schools in 2024, and how is it gathering feedback from elementary school students whose designated high schools are being changed?
Response 325: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed requirements for analysis, timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism for obtaining public feedback. Similarly to other school community members, students are invited and encouraged to provide feedback to school subcommittees as part of the review to inform the preparation of the school community input reports.
Comment 324: For a manufacturing wing or a woodworking room is the number of students for that learning space lower than a typical traditional classroom where you might fit 30 desks for English or Math? So the greenhouses, the technology spaces at Clarke, Westminster and Montcalm, they would have low numbers appropriate to their use rather than square footage and assuming that those spaces could be converted into regular classroom space? Please post these responses to the website so that all the community can understand.
Response 324: Please note that technology spaces are often larger than traditional classrooms and are also loaded per the same Ministry of Education requirements. There are no plans to convert larger spaces into traditional classrooms as part of this review in order to gain more physical space inside school buildings. The current capacities of schools are based on their existing classrooms, including tech emphasis spaces at schools that offer this programming.
Comment 323: The proposed attendance area changes will have significant implications for various secondary schools. The changes may also have entirely unnecessary/unwanted impacts on some feeder schools if/when implemented. Parents and families at that level may, and do, feel left out of the conversation and have seemingly had these scenarios imposed on them without any opportunity for input or consultation. It's concerning to me that no meetings occurred at the public school level. Why is that the case?
Response 323: All TVDSB families are being invited to participate in the secondary school community meetings that are being held at schools involved in the review. We encourage families to provide feedback to the subcommittees holding these meetings in order for this information to be included in the school community input reports that will be considered by Trustees as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 322: What do I need to do to keep my kids at EESS?
Response 322: All TVDSB families are being invited to participate in the secondary school community meetings that are being held at schools involved in the review. We encourage families to provide feedback to the subcommittees holding these meetings in order for this information to be included in the school community input reports that will be considered by Trustees as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 321: W. Sherwood Fox Public School is less than 1 km from Saunders Secondary, and many Fox students live within easy walking distance of Saunders.
What criteria determined the boundaries for the new catchment area for Saunders?
Why was the eastern boundary of that area set at Wonderland Road and not Pine Valley or even Andover Drive, as it currently is?
Response 321: The potential boundary changes are based on the realignment of various elementary school feeders to different secondary schools. Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the locations of some elementary schools and configurations of some attendance areas make it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while balancing enrolment across secondary schools comprehensively. The distance from W. Sherwood Fox PS to Westminster SS is approximately 1.5 km further than it is to Saunders SS (which equates to ~3 minute drive), with a portion of the W. Sherwood Fox PS attendance area being located closer to Westminster SS than it is to Saunders SS.
Comment 320: Could I see a copy of the current and proposed attendance boundaries for EESS? I can no longer find this on the TVDSB website. I can only find boundaries for the city of London and Middlesex County.
Response 320: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. An interactive map at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR (under Potential Options) shows the boundary changes for which feedback is being sought.
Comment 319: Have you considered allowing students in grades 11 & 12 as of Sept 2024 to remain at the schools they are currently enrolled in rather than making them switch at such a critical time. Since these students have had to deal with so much in the past 3 years including a number of inconsistencies in schooling, have you taken into consideration the impact on their mental health when asking them to now move away from the relationships that they have established with teachers & peers to start over in a whole new environment, when they are already trying to navigate the next stages of their life.
Response 319: Trustees will consider legacy agreement options for students to remain at current schools as part of their decision-making process.
Comment 318: Why students from Lester B. Pearson having no designated secondary school to move to as a cohort in any of the proposed options? Why Lester B. Pearson was missed as a current feeder school to London Central SS in the external consultancy’s report dated December 2022. This is a conflict with the key objective in the Attendance Area Review Study as highlighted below (Jan 31, Report to the Board, Initial Attendance Area Review, page 6, item 13. e): “A key objective of this study is to designate these communities to one secondary school so that students have the opportunity to develop and maintain relationships for their entire K-12 education experience.” The current options exclude and disadvantage all students from Lester B. Pearson from the key objective in the Attendance Area Review Study.
Response 318: One of the objectives of the attendance area review is to eliminate home school feeder splits in situations where elementary schools are designated to multiple secondary schools based on geography. Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts does not have an attendance area and historically students have been able to attend Central SS or their home school. Students who wish to continue with their peers to pursue specific programs would still be able to do so on an application basis.
Comment 317: There is currently no program in secondary schools dedicated exclusively to working on Electric vehicles. All of the automotive programs in secondary schools work include working with diesel, gasoline, hybrid and electric vehicles in the curriculum.
The Board has specific processes for applying for funding and planning to build new schools. What about renovations and upgrades for existing schools within the City of London? How is the board maintaining and improving current Secondary schools in the city?
For eg. What improvements could be made to Westminster Secondary School to make it an attractive choice for families? (Upgrades to the basketball courts and tennis courts, installing more windows, upgrades to the school track)
Has the board researched funding options for developing innovative programs such as design, manufacturing and mechanical repair of electric vehicles that could be located at schools such as Westminster or Clarke Rd?
Renovations to existing schools to include more windows and make them brighter, modern, welcoming and inspiring learning spaces are important for our students and make them a more attractive choice for students and their families.
Response 317: TVDSB utilizes assessment data from the Ministry of Education School Condition Assessment Program to prioritize available capital funding throughout schools in the region. TVDSB receives yearly capital grants from the Ministry of Education to revitalize and renew aged building components that have exceeded or will exceed their useful life cycle. For more information on the most recent capital funding announcement for the 2023-23 school year, please visit Capital Funding for the 2023-24 School Year - April 2023 (gov.on.ca).
Comment 316: Will parents be able to attend the meeting that decides these proposals in June? Either in person or on-line?
Response 316: Yes, the Board meeting will be open to the public for in-person attendance and streamed online.
Comment 315: It says that these possible scenarios will come into effect in September 2024 at the earliest. Will the date of implementation be determined at the meeting in June?
Response 315: Trustees will decide the date of implementation of any boundary changes. The date of the decision meeting is still being finalized.
Comment 314: Does Medway currently have portables? If so, how many?
Response 314: Medway HS does not currently have any portables.
Comment 313: How many portables is Medway allowed to have? The numbers are rising for Medway attendance and Medway is already over-populated.
Response 313: There is no prescribed maximum. However, the maximum total capacity of a school will vary across school sites and is based on several factors, including site size, ability to add portables, programming and operational considerations, and washroom counts. A specific maximum has not been established for each site.
Comment 312: What are the current "rules" for high school class sizes?
Response 312: Class sizes range from 10 - 32, based on the course and the pathway. These class sizes are based on provincial requirements and local collective agreements.
Comment 311: What are the current "rules" for technology class sizes? It is my understanding that these classes must be smaller
Response 311: Technology class sizes in Thames Valley schools are generally capped at 20, and do not exceed 22 students.
Comment 310: If portables cannot be added to Medway, how is it possible to keep class sizes within the limits when there is no way to physically put students as the attendance population increases?
Response 310: If a school has reached full capacity and is unable to continue adding portables due to the factors included in the Comment 313 above, capping enrolment at the school may become necessary.
Comment 309: Why is Lester B. Pearson school for the Arts no longer being considered a feeder school for Central SS, when the strings and winds programs are a natural prerequisite for Central strings/band? By excluding Pearson students, the quality and accessibility of the music program at Central is at risk. An application process, as you suggest, is not a guarantee, and does not ensure longevity nor sustainability of the Central Music programs.
Response 309: In the options under consideration, students would still be able to apply to enroll at Central SS from out of area in order to pursue the music program.
Comment 308: The numbers that were shared at the meetings show that in 2024/25 Lord Dorchester SS will be at 110% capacity and in 2028/29 will be at 125% capacity. While at East Elgin in 2024/25 they will be at 86% capacity and in 2028/29 will be at 76% capacity. Can someone explain the logic in sending Belmont students to Lord Dorchester when they already have an attendance record at East Elgin (and even Arthur Voden SS and St.Joes in St.Thomas)?
Also, I find the email was not clear. The subject lines need to be specific so people can flag them if they aren't able to fully read them the moment it comes through. The students at South Dorchester Public School have been tossed around like they are lab rats: the promises of a New Belmont Elementary School (which was promised for 2023-2024 school start and still nothing has been set in stone), amalgamation with Westminster Public School (putting South Dorchester well over capacity), now the new Area Attendance sending them to Lord Dorchester which will put LDSS over capacity, and put EESS UNDER capacity. Can we please just put a little more thought into these decisions before jumping?! Our kids deserve a little more consideration than what has been given.
Response 308: There are no changes contemplated between East Elgin SS and TVDSB secondary schools in St. Thomas. East Elgin SS shares a portion of its boundary with Glendale HS in Tillsonburg and Parkside CI in St. Thomas where students have an option regarding which school to attend and this is not proposed to change. The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS so students are not split up from peers based on geography. There is an interactive map available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR (under Potential Options) that shows the boundary changes for which feedback is being sought.
Comment 307: I would like to know specific details regarding the changes being made to the holding zones for East Elgin SS. I was told this may affect my children. I have one child already enrolled at East Elgin, and would like all my children to be able to attend there. I tried to find this info online with no luck.
Response 307: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. There is an interactive map available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR (under Potential Options) that shows the boundary changes for which feedback is being sought – the map is searchable by address. Please let us know if additional information would be helpful.
Comment 306: Could you please tell me why it was not noted anywhere in the initial review that the east and west boundaries for East Elgin were changing, along with the north boundary? Nowhere does it state that Straffordville and Eden will be forced to Glendale. It also does not state that Pt. Bruce, Jamestown Line, Springwater Rd and Kingsmill will be forced to attend Parkside, which is already way over capacity.
Response 306: There are no changes contemplated between East Elgin SS and Glendale HS or Parkside CI. Both schools share portions of their boundary with East Elgin SS where students have an option regarding which school to attend and this is not proposed to change. The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. There is an interactive map available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR (under Potential Options) that shows the boundary changes for which feedback is being sought.
Comment 305: Response to 267 says Students’ designated secondary schools are determined by the elementary school feeders. why does Pearson not have a designated school. Pearson students traditionally have been designated the option to go to Central and Beal, why are they being singled out as the only school that will does not have a designated school.
Response 305: One of the objectives of the attendance area review is to eliminate home school feeder splits in situations where elementary schools are designated to multiple secondary schools based on geography. Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts does not have an attendance area and historically students have been able to attend Central SS or their home school. Students who wish to continue with their peers to pursue specific programs would still be able to do so on an application basis.
Comment 304: The recommendation to eliminate the splitting of elementary school feeders across multiple secondary school sites was made to avoid splitting students by geography, which would keep classmates together as they progress from elementary to secondary school."
If the above is true, why are you removing Lester B. Pearson as a feeder school for Central SS? Are you considering a different SS for Pearson students in order to continue to give those classmates an option of staying together? If not, that seems highly inequitable.
Response 304: One of the objectives of the attendance area review is to eliminate home school feeder splits in situations where elementary schools are designated to multiple secondary schools based on geography. Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts does not have an attendance area and historically students have been able to attend Central SS or their home school. Students who wish to continue with their peers to pursue specific programs would still be able to do so on an application basis. We encourage you to also provide this feedback to the Central SS subcommittee in order for it to be included in the school community input report.
Comment 303a:
As a concerned parent of a student currently attending Lester B. Pearson, I would like to share my feedback and ask some questions regarding the proposed secondary school options for our children.
I am deeply concerned about the inequity surrounding students from Lester B. Pearson having no designated secondary school to move as a cohort in any of the proposed options. The current practice is that Lester B. Pearson is a defacto feeder school to London Central SS, and this has not been considered in any of the LAARC documents or proposals. This has been confirmed to Pearson’s Guidance department by London Central SS.
I would like to know why Lester B. Pearson was missed as a current feeder school to London Central SS in the external consultancy’s report dated December 2022. Additionally, I have a question regarding the key objective in the Attendance Area Review Study as highlighted below (Jan 31, Report to the Board, Initial Attendance Area Review, page 6, item 13.e):
“Furthermore, many elementary schools across London are split geographically between more than one secondary school, as shown in Figure 2-3. These splits result in students that have been attending the same school for elementary (K-8) to potentially be split for their secondary school education based strictly on geography. A key objective of this study is to designate these communities to one secondary school so that students have the opportunity to develop and maintain relationships for their entire K-12 education experience.”
I am concerned that leaving Pearson students with no option of a secondary school to attend as a cohort has a number of detrimental effects for their well-being, including no opportunity to develop and maintain relationships throughout their education experience, harmful effects of anxiety and mental health on students forcibly removed from their elementary school community, and inequitable treatment of Pearson students in their educational experience as compared to all other London area students.
As a significant portion of graduating Pearson students attend London Central SS together, I ask you to keep Pearson as a feeder school to London Central SS and formalize this in all considered options. This will maintain the Board’s objective of keeping communities together and providing an equitable educational experience for Pearson students.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Comment 303b: I am writing to express my deep concern of the inequity surrounding students from Lester B. Pearson having NO designated secondary school to move as a cohort in ANY of the proposed options. (I have a student currently attending Lester B. Pearson).
The current practice is that Lester B. Pearson is a defacto feeder school to London Central SS and this has not been considered in any of the LAARC documents or proposals. This has been confirmed to Pearson’s Guidance department by London Central SS, in that: Pearson students have never had to apply to Central as out of area students, and as such, Pearson is considered a feeder school to London Central SS.
This issue appears to stem from an error in the external consultancy’s report dated Dec 2022 in which Lester B. Pearson was missed as a current feeder school to London Central SS. Accordingly they were also excluded in both options proposed.
In keeping with the Board's objectives, Pearson students have always been able to keep their school community together throughout their educational experience by being able to attend London Central SS. Both proposed options 1 and 2 would create the situation where this is no longer possible for Pearson students, leaving them with no opportunity to continue on to together because Central would be restricted by size and/or geography.
This is completely contradictory to a key objective in the Attendance Area Review Study as highlighted below (Jan 31, Report to the Board, Initial Attendance Area Review, page 6, item 13.e) :
“Furthermore, many elementary schools across London are split geographically between more than one secondary school, as shown in Figure 2-3. These splits result in students that have been attending the same school for elementary (K-8) to potentially be split for their secondary school education based strictly on geography. A key objective of this study is to designate these communities to one secondary school, so students have the opportunity to develop and maintain relationships for their entire K-12 education experience.”
Leaving Pearson students with no option of a secondary school to attend as a cohort has a number of detrimental effects for the wellbeing of students:
- No opportunity to develop and maintain relationships throughout their education experience
- Harmful effects of anxiety and mental health on students forcibly removed from their elementary school community
- Inequitable treatment of Pearson students in their educational experience as compared to all other London area students
As a significant portion of graduating Pearson students attend London Central SS together, concerned parents are asking you to KEEP Pearson as a feeder school to London Central SS and formalize this in all considered options. This will maintain the Board’s objective of keeping communities together and providing an equitable educational experience.
Comment 303c: I am writing to express my deep concern of the inequity surrounding students from Lester B. Pearson having NO designated secondary school to move as a cohort in ANY of the proposed options. (I have a student currently attending Lester B. Pearson, and another one who was at Pearson and is now in grade 10 at Central).
As a significant portion of graduating Pearson students attend London Central SS together, concerned parents are asking you to KEEP Pearson as a feeder school to London Central SS and formalize this in all considered options. This will maintain the Board’s objective of keeping communities together and providing an equitable educational experience for Pearson students.
Comment 303d: We had every intention of attending Central Secondary school. The new changes don’t make sense for the speciality’s of lester b Pearson students after all of the hard work they put in. Boundaries should not be set when there are willing parents to make sure they have the best education possible especially after putting in such effort for allllllll of these years on the students part. It’s wrong.
Comment 303e: I am not in favour of the proposed changes as they will affect London Central Secondary School. We live in area. This will mean that my son who is in grade 10 will lose approximately 80% of his friends in his last year of high school. Does that sound like a good idea? If this was your child, would you want this? As the pandemic hit when he was in Grade 7 this will be once again devastating. He did not like online learning and after nearly two years of it he was finally full time in person last year and he thrived. His mood improved, his marks went and he was just happier and more pleasant to be around. Children are not a commodity that can be moved around. They have friends and friends are very important during those four short years of high school. Please, please reconsider this proposal and do not change these boundaries. If for some reason you decide to go ahead, please leave all students at their current schools until they graduate.
Response 303: One of the objectives of the attendance area review is to eliminate home school feeder splits in situations where elementary schools are designated to multiple secondary schools based on geography. Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts does not have an attendance area and historically students have been able to attend Central SS or their home school. Students who wish to continue with their peers to pursue specific programs would still be able to do so on an application basis.
Comment 302:
Can you please provide the number of current Medway HS students (2022/23), as well as the projected numbers for 2024/25 & 2028/29, broken down by feeder public school as outlined below:
- Cedar Hollow PS (Note: all are proposed to move to Montcalm)
- Centennial Central PS
- Delaware Central PS (Note: Please indicate those currently attending Saunders that are proposed to be sent to Medway, and those currently attending Medway)
- Jack Chambers PS (all proposed to move to AB Lucas)
- Oxbow PS (no change)
- Parkview PS (no change)
- Valleyview PS (no change)
- West Nissouri PS (all proposed to move to Lord Dorchester)
- Wilberforce PS (no change)
- Out of Area students (currently attending Medway HS)
Also, for the 67 students currently attending Central Secondary school, and the 12 attending Oakridge SS, can you please provide a breakdown of which feeder public schools they are zoned for currently.
Response 302: We have provided the break down of the existing students by their designated home school below. The Central (67 students) and Oakridge (12 students) counts have been updated for 2022 plots. Projected student enrolments for secondary schools aggregate the student numbers from the elementary feeders – the aggregate info is in the report and presentation.
Medway Students by Residing Elementary School
|
Residing Elementary School |
Student Count |
|
Bonaventure Meadows PS |
1 |
|
Byron Northview PS |
1 |
|
Caradoc PS |
2 |
|
Cedar Hollow PS |
38 |
|
Centennial Central PS |
147 |
|
Clara Brenton PS |
1 |
|
Delaware Central PS |
86 |
|
East Carling PS |
1 |
|
East Williams Memorial PS |
12 |
|
Evelyn Harrison PS |
3 |
|
Hillcrest PS |
1 |
|
Holding at Ryerson PS |
3 |
|
Holding at Sir John A. Macdonald PS |
1 |
|
Holding at Valleyview Central PS |
17 |
|
Jack Chambers PS |
137 |
|
John P. Robarts PS |
1 |
|
Masonville PS |
7 |
|
McGillivray Central PS |
6 |
|
Northridge PS |
3 |
|
Oxbow PS |
244 |
|
Parkview PS |
293 |
|
Prince Charles PS |
1 |
|
River Heights PS |
1 |
|
Riverside PS |
1 |
|
Sir Arthur Currie PS |
5 |
|
Stoney Creek PS |
37 |
|
Stoneybrook PS |
4 |
|
Valleyview Central PS |
23 |
|
West Nissouri PS |
69 |
|
Wilberforce PS |
292 |
|
Wilfrid Jury PS |
2 |
|
Total |
1,440 |
Students Residing within Medway Attendance Area Attending Central SS
|
Residing Elementary School |
Student Count |
|
Cedar Hollow PS |
10 |
|
Centennial Central PS |
13 |
|
Delaware Central PS |
2 |
|
Jack Chambers PS |
33 |
|
Parkview PS |
5 |
|
Wilberforce PS |
1 |
|
Total |
64 |
Students Residing within Medway Attendance Area Attending Oakridge SS
| Residing Elementary School | Student Count |
|
Cedar Hollow PS |
1 |
|
Centennial Central PS |
3 |
|
Delaware Central PS |
2 |
|
Jack Chambers PS |
1 |
|
Parkview PS |
3 |
|
Total |
10 |
Comment 301:
I wanted to connect with you today regarding the possible school change from East Elgin to potentially Lord Dorchester for Belmont residents.
I understand that there is a meeting that will be held in June to vote on the school change. As a Belmont resident and a mother of a child that would be attending East Elgin in September of 2024, I urge you to consider keeping the schools the same.
For years East Elgin has been the place Belmont students can call home for their secondary school experience. I have been talking to my child about all the programs they have to offer, the culture that is created there, the staff that make the school what it is, the sports programs, the tech programs, and the list goes on.
With so much change that has happened in the last few years, making this change now would be a disservice to the students and families.
Please consider voting against this change. I appreciate your time.
Comment 300: How have the concerns for mental health been addressed, if even at all considered? How is it justifiable for students still recovering from the aftermath of Covid education, to now have them up root their education again at the sacrifice of losing the friends and connections that they have built at EESS?
Response 300: All our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, including mental health supports, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students involved in this process. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity to collaborate with staff as part of the student transition process should families be required to switch schools.
Comment 299: Is it possible to extend the deadlines for this review to allow for an opportunity for the concerned parents, students and community to better understand and review the consequences of the impact this will have in all of Elgin County?
Response 299: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism and requirements for obtaining public feedback. We’re happy to supply any additional information required by the subcommittee in order to support the preparation of a school community input report.
Comment 298: Is it possible to hold a SECOND meeting to give more families the opportunity to participate as the timing of this meeting was held with very short notice and not at all well communicated to those who will be directly involved as to how exactly this will indeed impact the future of EESS?
Response 298: Yes, we understand this is being scheduled by the subcommittee.
Comment 297: How is it justifiable to over populate a school putting stress on their programing and staffing? How can you guarantee that the students at this school will get a good education when the time allotment the staff can spend with each student will decrease?
Response 297: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. Timetabling and the fact that some students do no take full course loads allow schools to operate above the capacity of the building.
Comment 296: Why have the South Dorchester grade 8 students been allowed to have the tour of EESS if this review is to be effective for the September 2024 school year? Why has there been no information or opportunity provided for these students to have a tour from the other high school?
Response 296: We are currently in the public consultation phase and no decisions have been made. Students will have the opportunity to tour Lord Dorchester SS should any boundary changes be made.
Comment 295: Can you please verify why the Watson and Associates report is identical to the administrative report?
Response 295: The Administrative report is a summary of the options included for public consultation in the consultants’ report.
Comment 294: Has there been any consideration put into the recent announcement of the Volkswagen Plant coming to St. Thomas?
Response 294: TVDSB monitors development applications from across the district and updates projections regularly based on the most current and up to date information. As new residential development applications are received because of the recent announcement in St. Thomas, these will be included into the projections.
Comment 293: EESS has an excellent technology program, why put this at risk when the future of this industry has become more prominent with the VW Plant announcement?
Response 293: There are no programming changes planned at East Elgin SS as part of this review.
Comment 292: What reason can be provided to explain why the feeder elementary schools for EESS, such as Davenport, Summers Corners, Straffordville, Port Burwell, McGregor, Springfield etc were not made aware of this attendance review as it will impact these students in regards to the programing that will or will not be available at EESS?
Response 292: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. There are no other changes involving East Elgin SS being contemplated at this time.
Comment 291: What considerations, if any, have been put forth concerning the possibility of losing public school enrolment to private schools who would be able to provide better programming as the public school programming and specialty teachers availability is dependent on the percentage of enrolment?
Response 291: All assumptions are based on the most recent and available data. Projections have been compared to actual enrolment data to ensure that assumptions continue to remain relevant and reliable. All recommendations take into consideration existing residence locations, where students are currently attending school, programming, and transportation impacts. Please note that there is no reliable indicator to gauge whether enrolment participation at a school or program will change significantly following the implementation of boundary changes. However, over time, enrolment generally substantiates to expected levels.
Comment 290: Is it possible to be provided with a more accurate report of how many children will be coming to EESS next year from all the feeder schools?
Response 290: The attendance area review report and presentation include the current and projected enrolments at East Elgin SS, including students from the elementary school feeders.
Comment 289: If this review and its results are not successful, what happens next another review to shuffle more students? Can any guarantees be provided that this will not happen?
Response 289: Attendance Area Reviews are initiated in accordance with the Attendance Area Review Procedure. The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. There are no other changes involving East Elgin SS being contemplated at this time.
Comment 288a: Concerns about kids having to start at East Elgin and then being forced to change to Lower Dorchester SS
Comment 288b: Will they do grandfathering? E.g., If one sibling goes to EE, can the rest of the siblings in the family go to EE? Will special circumstances be allowed?
Response 288: Trustees will consider providing legacy agreement options to students to remain at current schools as part of the decision-making process. We encourage secondary school subcommittees to provide feedback in this regard.
Comment 287: Some kids in Dorchester have friends in Aylmer, so they would want to go to EE because all their friends are here. Will the board take those scenarios into consideration?
Response 287: If a split secondary school boundary for the new Belmont elementary school is preferred, please include these comments in the school community input report.
Comment 286a: Why is transportation available to one child in a family, and not the other kids in the same family that might want to attend EE?
Comment 286b: How will transportation be managed/impacted?
Response 286: Bus transportation will continue to be offered to students to the schools they are designated to attend. Student Transportation Services’ Service Design Standards may be found here.
Comment 285a: If LD becomes overpopulated because of this by 2028, what is the point of this?
Comment 285b: Why would the board send more kids to a school that’s going to be overpopulated when EE isn’t overpopulated?
Response 285: The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS. Timetabling and the fact that some students do no take full course loads allow schools to operate above the capacity of the building and without needing portables, in some cases.
Comment 284: When will the Belmont school be built? TVDSB is expropriating land from a developer for the new Belmont elementary school.
Response 284: We expect to have possession of the site by September 2023, with construction to begin as soon as possible after the land is secured.
Comment 283: When did they come up with this new policy to keep kids in the same school K-12? Rural vs City debate.
Response 283: There is no formal policy in this regard.
Comment 282: Need to know how many students in Davenport would be coming to EE.
Response 282: There are no changes proposed as it relates to Davenport PS. Students would continue to attend East Elgin SS.
Comment 281a: Why were there not multiple reminders to parents to attend this meeting?
Comment 281b: The timeline is too tight to make a decision and engage with parents so they’re properly informed. Was this done on purpose?
Comment 281c: Had the board notified the families that are directly impacted by this?
Response 281: The review process formally commenced on January 31, 2023. Multiple notices regarding the review and public consultation meetings have been communicated to all affected secondary and elementary school families.
Comment 280a: Communications imply that you only have a say if you have a child in EE but this issue impact all kids (including those in elementary schools).
Comment 280b: Why is no representative from the board here?
Comment 280c: Why did trustees not come to this meeting? How will the meeting comments be communicated to them?
Response 280: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism and requirements for obtaining public feedback. As outlined in the procedure, the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities are families who are currently at the school. Meetings are open to the public and elementary school families have been invited to attend in order to provide input. Attendance Area Review Subcommittees submit school community input reports with feedback. These reports help inform the final report and recommendations and are provided to Trustees as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 279a: Why are they doing this?
Comment 279b: Will this jeopardize EE school?
Comment 279c: What is the primary reason for this change in boundaries?
Comment 279d: Middlesex/Elgin county lines - are they changing these?
Comment 279e: Concerns that eventually they will get rid of EE if population of the school continues to decline.
Response 279: This is an attendance area review and there are no plans to close any schools as part of this process. The attendance area of the new Belmont elementary school is split between Lord Dorchester SS and East Elgin SS. We are seeking feedback regarding eliminating this elementary school feeder split and designating all students to attend Lord Dorchester SS.
Comment 278: Why are we moving children around to different High Schools when the majority will still be over-capacity at the end of the process?
Response 278: There is space available at Westminster SS, Clarke Road SS, and Montcalm SS. The purpose of the review is to balance enrolment and to better position the community for new capital investment in the form of a new secondary school once schools with space are better utilized.
Comment 277: Why is Montcalm under option two losing a feeder school to London Central?
Response 277: East Carling PS is currently a split feeder to Montcalm SS and Central SS. Option 2 would designate this school to Central SS in its entirety to eliminate this split. The utilization for Montcalm SS in Option 2 would exceed 100%.
Comment 276: Can you confirm that Pearson will not be a feeder school for London Central in either option despite the natural fit for the Strings program as a continuation from Pearson’s string program? Central is one of a few high schools that offer both Strings and Band programs. The proposed feeder schools do not have a strings program. Currently, almost half of Central’s students are involved in the music program. What would happen to the strings program if students from out of area are not allowed to attend London Central? Why is Beal not being considered in the attendance review when other schools offer specialized programs? Beal is not involved in the review due to its numerous specialized program offerings. Specialized programs at other schools are also not proposed to change. The review is exploring potential boundary changes for English track and French Immersion programming only.
Response 276: The two potential English track options would designate Pearson students to their home school with the ability to apply to Central on a programming basis (e.g. strings program).
Comment 275: If the purpose of the Area Review is to make a business case for there to be another High School constructed in the area, will there be another Review in the near future when that school is constructed?
Response 275: It will likely take several years to receive approval for a new school, and several years to construct it. A future boundary review will be needed to establish an attendance area for the new school once funding and a school site are secured.
Comment 274: Why do students need to go to their home school in 2024?
Response 274: Balancing enrolment across schools is necessary to strengthen the business case for a new school.
Comment 273: What is the deadline for submission of the delegation applications package? When are delegation presentations scheduled for? When is the delegation presentation material due to be submitted?
Response 273: The process for public delegation will be included in the final AAR report and will be communicated to subcommittees at that time.
Comment 272: With the new boundaries, will the board allow grandfathering? That is if a student is currently attending an out of boundary school will they be grandfathered into the school they are currently attending? Please share your proposed grandfathering policy.
Response 272: Trustees will consider legacy agreements as part of the decision-making process. Subcommittees are encouraged to provide input on this as part of the school community reports that are being prepared.
Comment 271: With the new boundaries, will students still be able to apply to go to schools outside their boundary? Who will make the decision on accepting a student? Will it be the same lottery system? Please share your policy around lotteries.
Response 271: TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 270: How has the board measured & evaluated the impact on diversity in each school resulting from boundary changes? Please share your framework.
Response 270: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed requirements for analysis, timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism for obtaining public feedback.
Comment 269: How has the board measured & evaluated the impact on busing to each school from resulting boundary changes? Please share your framework.
Response 269: This information will be posted to the Q & A section of the LAAR website and will be included in the Final AAR Report to be presented in June.
Comment 268: How has the board incorporated the impact on mental health resulting from boundary changes and policies related to restricting students from attending schools outside their boundary? Please share your framework.
Response 268: All our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, including mental health supports, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students involved in this process. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity to collaborate with staff as part of the student transition process should families be required to switch schools.
Comment 267: Will the address of a student or the feeder school determine their choice of high school?
Response 267: Students’ designated secondary schools are determined by the elementary school feeders.
Comment 266: If a child is admitted, under the new boundaries, to a school as an out of area student, will they be able to complete their schooling at that school until graduation or will they have to apply each year to stay in the high school?
Response 266: TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 265: I have one son in grade 9 in LDSS Dorchester and another in grade 11 at CASS online Woodstock.
Since online is not as involved a synchronously as in prior years he will be joining his brother next year in class at LDSS. My son in gr 9 went there to join his peers.
As of now, I know of myself and others who are driving their kids every day.
Is Thamesford on the block for busing to Dorchester during this review or only London schools?
Response 265: Thamesford PS is a feeder school to Ingersoll District CI. The current review proposes to eliminate the feeder split of Summerside PS between Clarke Road SS and Lord Dorchester SS (with all students from Summerside PS proposed to attend Clarke Road SS) and the redesignation of South Dorchester PS from East Elgin SS to Lord Dorchester SS.
Comment 264: With the proposal of redrawing the FI boundaries, do these numbers include the number of students in the north who will choose to stay at a school in the north rather than go all the way to Clark Road? A lot of students will choose not to continue with FI to stay closer to home and friends which will only increase the capacity at Lucas even more than proposed.
Is there anything that we as parents can do to put more pressure on the province to build a new school in the north sooner? The number of students that Lucas is set to increase by by the time my kids reach high school is outrageous.
Response 264: All assumptions are based on the most recent and available data. Projections have been compared to actual enrolment data to ensure that assumptions continue to remain relevant and reliable. All recommendations take into consideration existing residence locations, where students are currently attending school, programming (French Immersion or English track), and transportation impacts. Please note that there is no reliable indicator to gauge whether enrolment participation at a school or program will change significantly following the implementation of boundary changes. However, over time, enrolment generally substantiates to expected levels.
Once the business case for a new secondary school in north London is submitted to the Ministry, we would very much welcome community support for its approval.
Comment 263: I am concerned about rankings and the difference in program support between Lucas and Montcalm. If for example, the same support is provided to two colleges, and they are producing different results, then it calls for a very serious investigation to find the root cause and address it. This is the only way to address young students' apprehensions.
Above all, a psychological assessment of students proposed to shift from A B Lucas to Montcalm must be done, especially from Cedar Hollow, otherwise, we are not doing any good with them and their future.
Response 263: The same curriculum is taught at all Thames Valley schools. Montcalm SS offers students the courses necessary to be successful in all pathways, including college, university, and the workforce. All Thames Valley schools offer the same supports to students, as required.
Comment 262: What are the boundary changes for Oakridge high school in the proposal?
Response 262: A summary of the options under consideration is available here. Interactive maps that illustrate the potential changes, searchable by address, are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 261: Is school attendance a factor in whether my son can attend Saunders. He is at Saunders for the tech emphasis program. But his attendance is not the greatest. Please shed some light on this as it’s creating some stress and anxiety for my home.
Response 261: Please note that tech emphasis attendance areas are not affected by this review. The presentation outlining potential changes resulting from this review is available here.
Comment 260: Why are the impacted homeowners in the areas impacted receiving no communication on the potential change? What secondary school one attends is a significant reason for purchasing a home in a specific area yet there has been no communication to affected homeowners in affected areas that it’s changing.
When will a communication be issued to those groups so they are aware there is a change coming and be given a chance to attend meetings and ask questions before a decision is made? I am a member of Cedar Hollow but don’t have kids is the TVDSB school system. We are slated to move to Montcalm. When will I be made aware and have a chance to ask questions and participate?
Response 260: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism and requirements for obtaining public feedback. As outlined in the procedure, the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities must be families who are currently at the school.
However, the subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate and provide feedback is encouraged to do so. Notices regarding school-level meetings are being circulated to both secondary and elementary school families, as per the procedure.
Comment 259: My son is in Grade 10 at Central Secondary School. When he was still in his elementary school, Central was always his first choice. He was very lucky to win the lottery to attend Central. In the year or so since he started high school, he has looked forward to going to school every day to see his teachers and classmates, he has participated in various school activities and looked forward to being a great addition to Central.
A few month ago, he was shocked to learn that he may be moved out of Central SS and forced to start Grade 12, his last year of high school, at a different school. As parents, we are deeply concerned and feel that it is unfair. Plan 2 of school boundary change set for Central's admissions plan is to kick all non-home school children back into their home schools. Has this decision considered the mental effects of the children?
Currently, at the end of grade 8, every child can choose a non-home high school in addition to their own home schools. However, in Scenario 2 of the plan, all non-home school students will be kicked back to their home schools.
The proposed plan says that these changes are due to the fact that London's population is growing too fast, and the number of students exceeds the number of students enrolled in all schools. Therefore, changing the enrollment plan by keeping students at their home schools does not change the fact that there are too many students overall. Simply kicking students back into their home schools will be a serious challenge for all non-home school students emotionally and academically. Central will be impacted the most because 75% of the students were non-home students.
We are opposed to changing the current method of enrollment for all secondary schools especially for Central SS. We are looking forward to hearing from you.
Response 259: We encourage families to participate in the school level meetings that are being held for this review and to provide feedback into the school community report that each attendance area review subcommittee will be submitting for Trustees’ consideration. Details for Central’s subcommittee meeting are being circulated to all families via email and may also be found via this link.
Comment 258: I have a grave concern about changes to existing students at Lucas impacted by changes to their stability in education. Our daughter is an approved out of zone student in grade 10 at Lucas. As her parents, we are concerned after 3 years of upheaval that she can be ensured to finish her high school education at her current school. Our daughter has an IEP with proper trusted support at her school. Are current students being grandfathered in their current school if these changes happen? We already provide transport for our daughter and will continue to do so until she graduates. We are worried that changes in her last year of school where she is thriving would undo all her progress. Please let us know if current students will be grandfathered if we do not require bus transport.
Response 258: Trustees will consider legacy agreements for current students as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to provide feedback regarding these considerations as part of the school community reports that each secondary school subcommittee will be preparing.
Comment 257: My daughter is an out of zone approved grade 10 student at Lucas with an IEP and supports at her school. If changes happen my daughter will be in her last year at Lucas. When our daughter’s grade school was rezoned current students were allowed to be grandfathered to finished their education if parents provided transport. I am hoping that with all students have overcome that we can finish our daughter’s last year of high school at Lucas and the supports we have in place where she thriving.
Response 257: Trustees will consider legacy agreements for current students as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to provide feedback regarding these considerations as part of the school community reports that each secondary school subcommittee will be preparing.
Comment 256: Please provide better maps for ALL scenarios being presented so that they can be better understood by parents and community members. The current "interactive" maps on the attendance review website are not easily accessed if there are technology issues. As well, the colourful "maps" in the initial report are little more than vague geometric designs superimposed over a map without proper street designations. How is it possible that for such impactful proposals, the Board would deem it sufficient to produce such imprecise visual information? Why would it not permit those with a vested interest the ability to see and study the full extent of the proposed changes and why aren't a series of more detailed, precise maps provided?
Response 256: A member of our team will be in touch to assist with the interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. This website also includes a link to the presentation for this review, which summarizes the potential changes in both scenarios in tables for ease of reference (and also provides the current elementary and secondary school feeder relationships in a table format).
Comment 255: Hello, I'm just trying to understand what my child's options will be for high school for each option. She attends East Carling but we live on the very cusp of Princess Ave and Adelaide. Her current high school would be Central. Is it possible that she could ultimately end up going to Montcalm instead? I am concerned about this option, mainly because it makes very little sense to send a child to a school over 5 kms away, rather than to send them to a school that is 1 km away. Under which scenarios will that happen?
Response 255: East Carling PS is currently split between Central SS and Montcalm SS. Under Scenario 1, East Carling in its entirety would be designated to Montcalm SS. Under Scenario 2, East Carling PS in its entirety would become a feeder school for Central SS. The option to attend H.B. Beal SS would be available based on Beal’s current boundaries (which include the area referenced in your initial email below, being generally south of the CP Railway – Beal’s boundary in relation to East Carling PS does not extend north of the CP tracks).
Comment 254:
Dear Director and Trustees,
I am writing to express my concern for the students affected by the current Attendance Area Review, especially the students of Central Secondary School. I understand that with some schools overfull and others below capacity, changes have to be made. However, I do not believe that the proposed changes would be in the best interests of students and in fact, would be detrimental to their mental wellbeing.
We recently attended a meeting and were presented with two options: the status quo (which likely serves Central best, though it's unclear that the feeder schools would remain the same--more on that later), or "Option 2" with feeder schools changing in 2024, and any student not in the new feeder schools areas being sent to their home school (which forces students into a transition that seems frankly cruel and unnecessary).
However, many questions remain:
- What's the justification for this? I've heard at least three: that you need to equalize student populations to justify a new school, that it's to "minimize disruption" and keep students with their friends, that it's to more evenly spread French Immersion programs across the city...
- Why couldn't students remain at their school, with a cut off only for new admissions? It seems ridiculous for 3/4 of Central students to be transitioned out, just to be replaced by students from the area.
- Not all feeder schools are listed in the proposals: my daughter currently attends Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts which is a feeder school for Central SS, but it's not listed on any documents. Will she be forced out in 2024? Will she have to attend the secondary school for East Carling, which she didn't attend? TVDSB’s practice has been to permit Pearson students to attend Central SS or their home school.
- Why isn't Pearson listed on the documents? Is it a feeder school for Central, or isn't it? If it's not, does that make it a feeder school for B. Davison? Laurier? Beal? Clarke Road? Or will students at Pearson be assigned high schools based on Pearson being a feeder school, or based on their address, and included in a graduating class they're not a part of? This goes against the justification of keeping students with their friends.
- Will students be limited only to their home school, even if they wish to attend a special program? My daughter has chosen to attend Central to continue playing the cello and is excited to be part of their strings program.
- Does this mean that all special programs are being spread more evenly across the board, since students are being forced to attend home schools? Will all schools offer all technical courses? all arts credits? all language programs? My other child goes to Beal and is in the BealArt Program. What happens to that one special program? Does this mean my other child will be forced to change schools in 2024 and drop out of BealArt?
- What will happen to Indigenous students who are bussed in from outside their school's catchment area? Are they going to be sent to a school that is closer, but still not technically in their catchment area?
I just think that changes should be made with as little disruption as possible, and that the implications of these policies are far-reaching, if applied fairly. I would LOVE it if special programs and all courses were available at all primary and secondary schools. It would be great if all students could find what they needed at a school that was close to them. But we haven't built that system. We have a system where some programs are at some schools, and other schools have different programs.
If we actually want to build every student's tomorrow, today, then we need to make sure that they can access the programs and education that they need. The proposed changes don't seem to do that. Depending on what you decide, my daughter will be take from the school with her friends and sent to a school with strangers and one that doesn't support her musical interest.
I hope that you take into consideration these thoughts and concerns when making your final decision.
Thank you.
Response 254:
Please find responses to your question below. Thank you.
- All three of these reasons form the rationale for this review.
- Two options are being explored for Central SS, one of which would be to keep the school as status quo as it relates to out of area students. In this option the school would continue to accept out of area students with some adjustments to its home boundary to designate elementary feeders to one secondary school. TVDSB welcomes input from school communities regarding both options.
- The two potential English track options would designate Pearson students to their home school with the ability to apply to Central on a programming basis (e.g. strings program). Students would be expected to attend their designated schools following the implementation of any boundary changes. Designated secondary schools are determined by elementary school feeders.
- Please see answer to question 3.
- There are no changes proposed to specialized programs and students will continue to be able to apply to these programs.
- There are no changes proposed to the locations of specialized programs.
- There are no changes proposed to Indigenous programs and students will continue to be able to attend current schools.
Comment 253: On the agenda for the Board Meeting on April 25th was the motion:
Motion 5: That the decision of the Board of Trustees on the Final London Secondary Attendance Area Review Report be extended to the October 2023 Board meeting.
Can you update everyone about the status of this motion?
Response 253: This motion has been deferred to a future Board meeting. Regarding the Final Attendance Area Review Report, Administration is planning on presenting this in June following the receipt and consideration of community feedback and school subcommittee reports.
Comment 252: I strongly oppose having students from Cleardale attend Westminster. The initial report states the intention to keep students cohorted within their neighbourhoods yet this change would have some students within walking distance of each other continue to South while others are expected to attend Westminster. Cleardale previously feed into South or Beal. Removing both options in favour of Westminster seems an inappropriate recommendation based on the stated criteria and intent behind the decision making.
Comment 251: The initial report states an objective of eliminating feeder school splits and boundary issues yet North London students (eg, Old North, Eagle Heights) will continue to be allowed to choose between two high schools. Having this option of choice available to some but not all students is unfair particularly in the light of the sweeping changes this report proposes to other students citywide.
Comment 250: Here is what is noted in the Q&A section Question 35: Can Lester B. Pearson graduated students can go to Central Secondary directly?
Comment 35: The changes under consideration would designate students attending Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts to their home secondary school. We encourage families to participate in the school-level consultations that are planned as part of this review. More information regarding these meetings will be made available through the website and School Messenger communication.
I was unable to attend the Central SS meeting tonight (April 13) but want to express my opposition to a change in the current situation, which is Pearson being a feeder school to Central. Although Pearson is not a community school it is not fair nor in the best of Pearson students to attend elementary school together for 5 years but then be forced to attend separate secondary schools. The transition to high school is difficult under any circumstance and after the difficult pandemic years negatively affecting the mental well-being of the children this seemingly small potential change will have an outsized impact.
Comment 249: First off, thank you to the parent committee for the wonderful job that they have done thus far on the AAR. Last night's presentation at Lucas was very informative, and at times quite spirited from the attendees.
To preface this email, I would like to first indicate that I am NOT a Cedar Hollow parent, which put me in the minority at the meeting last night. My children attend Masonville, and with the revised attendance areas they will continue on to Lucas for high school.
While I can appreciate that the Cedar Hollow parents are quite passionate about the boundary changes as they are the most impacted in the Lucas area, I wanted to bring forward thoughts from « the other side ».
In my opinion, it is integral that the school boundaries be modified in order to limit enrolments to a more reasonable amount at Lucas.
Lucas, and all of the schools feeding to it in both proposals, are well above capacity. The north London schools are bursting at the seams, and the impact on students is obvious. Despite already being above capacity, we are also expecting exponential growth in many of the proposed feeder schools in the near future due to new high, medium, and low density residential builds, which ultimately will further increase the Lucas enrolments.
My children currently attend Masonville, which is already largely over capacity despite a massive expansion being built just 2 years ago. With 800+ students at that school, we have witnessed and experienced what « over capacity » really means. It means more stress on the staff, it means less room for children, it means children get "lost in the fold". It means children can come out feeling like "just a number". You lose the community feel when schools are so far above capacity. While yes, admittedly I am aware that more supports are filtered to schools based on the number of students enrolled, I also am very, VERY aware from personal experience that this does not mean that there are enough supports. This is a larger scale problem, and not necessarily one that the AAR will be able to directly fix, but it will be largely addressed by spreading out the attendance. Reducing the school size is important for the well-being of our children, for the teachers and support staff well-being, and for the school community as a whole.
The Cedar Hollow parents kept saying "it's only 35 children", but the reality is that it is never, and will never be, only 35 children. Assuming 35 children in the grade 8 graduating class this year move to Lucas, and that number remains stagnant for the next 4 years (which we all know it will not), that is really 140 children in the school over their 4 year high school career (35 kids * 4 years enrollments). That, coupled with the growth expected in the Cedar Hollow area due to new builds, regular movement, etc., will actually likely push that number up closer to 200-250 in the near future. Long term, we can agree that the number will continue to grow well beyond that. The hard reality is that Lucas cannot accommodate those extra 140++ bodies when they are already over capacity and will need space to contend with the significant growth coming from their other feeder schools (such as Masonville and Jack Chambers specifically, who are currently continuing to surge in enrollments and expect significantly more enrollments in the next 2 years).
I know it's quite a difficult decision, and I do sympathize with the Cedar Hollow community on this change and how that impacts their students. However, as a whole for the entire area and for Lucas specifically, having Cedar Hollow feed to Lucas just doesn't make sense when Montcalm is geographically closer with minimal need for students to cross a major thoroughfare (Highbury), walkable for many students and/or reduces need for bussing, and most importantly has the capacity to accept their current student body size as well as the expected continued growth.
I thank you again for your time and patience when dealing with the AAR, and I do hope that we see either Option A or Option B of the proposal pass as written.
Comment 248: We live a block from Saunders and can see it from our yard, but that will not be my kids home high school. It doesn’t make any sense for them to be shipped/driven to Westminster, while other kids are bussed into Saunders. We are the closest elementary school and I really hope the board reassesses the plan for kids from W Sherwood Fox. They should be able to attend Saunders as their home school.
Comment 247: Good afternoon, I would like to provide input on the LAAR for Medway High School Zone, in which the Jack Chambers Public School area is proposed to change from 2 high schools (Medway and Lucas) to 1 (Lucas). I would like a legacy agreement for students entering Medway for the 2023 school year to be able to continue their education at Medway, with busing.
I believe that these changes are very disruptive to a student's education and mental health. Changing schools is a considerable stressor for children. They have had enough disruption to their education over the past 3 years due to covid, and they require stability. In addition, I believe that the % population that is forecasted at Lucas by sending all Jack Chambers students to Lucas is concerning. Based on the information I've seen, Lucas will be more populated vs. Medway at status quo, which is a concern. Thank you for your consideration.
Comment 246: I think any attendance changes are unnecessary...
Comment 245: Please make any attendance changes to existing students at each school OPTIONAL.
I am unaware of the complete details, but I would strongly urge any attendance adjustments to NOT be made by force retroactively.
If a student is already attending a school and they wish to continue attending that school, they should not be forced to pack up and start over at a new school if they don't want to.
I know my children would like to stay at the schools they are currently attending and it doesn't have anything with them not wanting to be at the same school as each other.
Comment 244: 76% of students residing in the Central SS attendance area go to other schools. The evolution of a skewed and specialized academic program has left local students at Central feeder schools without a proper community school - the evidence is in the numbers. Much emphasis was placed on mental health and wellbeing of students and families of Central if scenario 2 was implemented (return to home schools) at the Central subcommittee meeting; however there needs to be similar emphasis (i.e. equal and balanced that effectively cancels this point) regarding mental health and wellbeing of prospective Central students that need to go elsewhere due to the atypical environment at their home school. Returning all students to home schools is the most measured way to predictably address wellbeing for the greatest number of students.
Comment 243: We are very concerned about the possibility of our son being removed from his current school (Sir Frederick Banting) for his grade 12 year. This would be unnecessarily disruptive and unsettling, and we openly oppose any proposal that would necessitate a change of schools in his final high school year.
Comment 242: The new proposed NE & NE London high schools once again attempt to separate the students from Sunningdale West from their peers in the larger Sunningdale Community. The parents of both areas petitioned heartfully many years ago to ensure that these two communities remained together at Masonville and beyond to highschool. They play extra curricular activities together, have long standing friendships that I know my children appreciate and very much rely on in their teen years. Please look at the way the boundary was established for Masonville PS - the area of Sunningdale West actually has a finite amount of land developed and this was considered (including the new area presently being developed) when including us in the greater Sunningdale area for the PS area review. Hickory Ridge is a completely separate community as is Fox Hollow. Sunningdale West is very much a part, not an extension of the greater Sunningdale community.
Comment 241: TVDSB should give students a choice in which high school they will attend. Student voice, mental well being and safety is a huge priority for our family and we do not want to be "just a number filling a seat," in order for TVDSB to meet numbers…We worked hard to move to this neighbourhood.
Comment 240: I'm very concerned with the proposal for the boundaries. We registered my grade 8 for grade 9 at an alternate school than his feeder one for many reasons. If he starts grade 9 there, should he not have the option to be legacy/grandfathered in with the option to stay? This should be considered please for all existing students. To change everything in June now or for September 2024 is very unfair. This should have been decided on prior to grade 8 orientations. The transition to high school is overwhelming enough for us all. Adding this doesn’t help.
I understand some schools may have less capacity to accept kids outside their boundary but this should be decided and advised right from the start, not going ahead and accept them, get hopes up and peace of mind..to take it away. Please do right by the kids and us parents who live for their well being. Thank you.
Comment 239: Hello. I am writing as a concerned parent.
I have a daughter going into grade 9 and is registered to attend Lucas in Sept. 2023. I have another daughter going into grade 6 this year.
I am concerned because we are a part of the rezoning plan where our home high school will possibly change from Lucas to Montcalm. I am very concerned because my daughter will have one year at Lucas and then may be forced to change schools. I don't know if whoever is reading this has children, but you can only imagine what these kids have been through during the pandemic and the impact it has had on their academics and their mental health. As the research evolves around this it will be made more clear the impact that the pandemic had on children. Any teacher out there they will tell you they see these impacts daily. I want my daughter to have choice.
We were also part of a elementary school rezoning. My daughter was already forced to change schools once, moving from Northridge to Cedar Hollow and here we are again.
I am also aware that there is no special considerations being thought of for this change such as grandfathering, busing, or accommodating siblings. If this change goes through I hope this is something the TVDSB will consider.
One easy solution to the challenges that the TVDSB is facing with over populated schools is to place limits on how many students each high school takes that is out of their home school area. At a recent LAAR committee I heard from the Lucas Principal that they are over populated, and that they also accept all grade 9 applications from students that do not reside in the Lucas area. Sounds like this problem was created by TVDSB and now my children are the ones having to deal with the unintended consequences.
We are currently looking at transferring my daughter to Mother Teresa for high school to avoid the disruption that the TVDSB is causing. My understanding is that the board is having a meeting on June 28 and the decision will be made then for the 2024 school year, however the timing of this has huge impacts for the kids going into grade 9 this year. I want you to know that I do not support this decision and I know a lot of parents that agree with me and we are working with our LAAR committee to voice these concerns. I truly hope that the TVDSB holds up to the commitments they outline on their website to put all students first, collaborate with the community and communicate this effectively and timely so children can plan accordingly to ensure they have the best academic experience.
Yours truly, a concerned parent!
Comment 238: If the board votes to rezone Cedar Hollow PS to only Montcalm I will be moving my children to the Catholic school board. Amongst other reasons, I will not have my children walk multiple kms to and from school, particularly along Highbury. My children have already been through one rezoning when they were forced from Northridge, I will not just accept them losing the option of going with their classmates to Lucas.
Comment 237: We have two successful FI secondary (Laurier and Banting) programs running in London due to the sheer fact that we have the ability to offer a wide variety of FI courses because of the student population. This gives all FI students the ability to get the 10 credits that they need to graduate with their FI diploma. Especially those who have IEP’s and/or LD’s.
When you look at adding a 3rd site at Clarke Rd and decreasing the student population you then will decrease the FI courses available to each student. This will force FI students into taking specific courses (more challenging courses).
How is this fair and equitable to every student? Especially when comparing FI to English schools. How is this supporting the FI students right to education?
How does this plan support children who have IEP’s or LD’s when they limited course options to choose from?
The proximity in itself of the 3rd site has the ability to be detrimental to the FI program.
Why would students travel to this new site with an understanding that they would have limited FI courses available to them?
What about the kids who have established relationships with peers, teachers, support staff, sports teams, clubs within their current schools and then are expected to start over at new schools.
How is this trauma informed care?
How is this supporting their mental health?
How is this therapeutically in the best interest of these students who have already suffered so much with the pandemic?
Comment 236: My son is currently in grade 9 at Saunders. According to the proposed changes we would be in the Westminster area if they go through. If this change was to start Sept 2024, would he have to go to Westminster or could he finish highschool at Saunders? Or would this only affect students enrolling in highschool for grade 9?
Response 236: Secondary school attendance area review subcommittee meetings are in the process of being scheduled and invitations are being extended to elementary families as well (all meeting details will also be posted here: https://www.tvdsb.ca/en/our-board/laar-secondary-school-related-news.aspx).
We encourage families to participate in these meetings and provide input into the school community report that each secondary school subcommittee will be submitting for Trustees’ consideration.
Comment 235: Hello, I am the parent of 4 students in the Thamas Valley District School Board. All 4 of my children are currently enrolled in French Immersion. My oldest child is in grade 10 at Laurier in the French Immersion program. My younger 3 children are at Princess Anne in grade 2, 4 and 6. Although I see the value in moving the French Immersion program to Clarke Road for students in that area, I am 100% absolutely against moving any children already enrolled at Laurier to another school. My child who is currently in grade 10 has suffered immensely through the pandemic, as have his peers. This cohort of children became teenagers during lockdown, were socially isolated, and suffered severe mental health concerns. They are now regaining independence, making new friendships, and have integrated very well at the school in terms of activities, clubs, sports, and overall well being. To take them away from their friend group, which includes students in the English program and sports teams and clubs, would be an absolute detriment to their well being and it is asking too much for their already fragile resiliency. If the boundary changes move forward and French Immersion moves to Clarke road, it should be considered mandatory and without question that you grandfather any children that are already enrolled in Laurier. They must be permitted to stay in their school and graduate with their peers. Please consider the mental health and well being of children above any other agenda items or plans that this boundary review involves.
Comment 236: I don't understand why children choosing french immersion high school who live in the Ilderton area and would historically be attending Banting would now be bused to Clark Road. That is a huge distance and like several others have commented, it is going to affect their ability to participate in extra curriculars etc. Our Catholic school feeder is 7 km away. That would make it very tough for our children to have participated in sports and other activities. It is great to provide a bus, however by highschool level this does not really work if you want to participate in extracurriculars... you need to be close to your highschool.
Looking at the children going to Oakridge who are "out of area" I find is interesting. There is a neighbourhood very close to Oakridge which began as a holding zone as the "Oakcrossing" area got bigger. They were originally a holding zone to Eagle Heights because Clara Breton could not accommodate them. After the second or third reno to Eagle Heights, children in that area were no longer considered to be in a holding zone and were permanently zoned to Eagle Heights. During discussions at that point, the board mentioned that the intention was as Clara Breton's enrollment decreased to eventually bus students from that neighborhood to Clara Breton instead of Eagle Heights. Many families send their children to Oakridge- it is a lot closer walking distance to the neighborhood of Oakcrossing than Banting is. They do not get a bus to Banting and are almost exactly the distance away to get one...but not quite. Rather than having the "west five" school zoned for Oakridge, I think the board should be looking at moving some of Eagle Heights population that lives off of Wonderland /Oxford (same side) as Clara Breton to the Oakridge area. I would also think that it would make more sense to take some of the children who live in Byron and zone them to Oakridge as well. They are much closer than the west five school will be!
My last child is attending grade 11 at the moment out of area. I am assuming this will not affect him for next year (crossing my fingers). I think that unfortunately the TVDSB school board is loosing a lot of children to the Catholic Board and that by making some of these new moves which I think by reading the comments look very favourable to the majority that it will continue to lose students.
Comment 235: We live in north London, off of Sunningdale, in uplands. My children fall in the group of students who are currently in the Jack Chambers school catchment area and could previously choose Medway or Lucas as their base school. With the proposed changes, my children would have to attend Lucas. I respectfully request two things. First, that my daughter, in grade ten can complete her high school experience at Medway. She has created community there and a change would be disruptive to her well being. She has had an excellent experience at Medway. Secondly, I request that siblings be grandfathered in, such that her younger brother would be welcome to also choose Medway. It would be a challenge for our family to have our children in different school settings. Thank you for considering. A concerned parent.
Comment 234: I just want to state my displeasure and non agreement with Clarke Road re zoning.
The quality and range of FI courses will be limited as there is already a shortage of French instructors in the school board.
If this change is approved, I will NOT be sending my kids to Clarke road school.
We have two successful FI secondary (Laurier and Banting) programs running in London due to the fact that we have the ability to offer a wide variety of FI courses because of the student population. This gives all FI students the ability to get the 10 credits they need to graduate with their FI diploma.
When you look at adding a 3rd site and decreasing the student population you then will decrease the FI courses available to each student. This will force FI students into taking specific courses (more challenging courses) how is this fair and equitable to every student? Especially when comparing FI to English schools. How is this supporting the FI students right to education?
The proximity in itself of the 3rd site has the ability to be detrimental to the FI program.
Why would students travel to this new site with an understanding that they would have limited FI courses available to them?
A lot of kids go to Banting for the sports and clubs they are not going to get this at the third site.
Other key points I would like to highlight-
- Mental health and the impact of the pandemic on our kids
- General disruption of education - schools are supposed to a students safe space
- The impact it will have on peer/teacher relationships
- Kids involvement in sports and clubs
- Should schools not be taking a trauma informed approach?
I urge you to reconsider this rezoning and additional third FI site that will not support kids currently in the FI program in London!
Comment 232: The possibly switch from Banting to Clarke road is unacceptable. My grade 7 daughter has been planning to attend Banting her entire school career. As a avid swimmer, Clarke Road does not have a swim team or the sports Banting offers. Stopping teenagers from participating in sports has life long consequences. Smaller FI numbers will mean smaller course options and limited extras. As a social work student, my mission is to improve student mental health and this move could devastate students when we know they are already struggling with mental health...
Comment 231: Two successful secondary FI programs are running in London due to the fact that we have the ability to offer the students a variety of courses in French in order for them to earn their FI diploma.
When we look at adding a 3rd site the ability to offer the variety of courses will greatly decrease for these students forcing them to take specific courses in order to get their diploma.
Not only will these courses be limited but they will be more challenging in nature. What about the kids that have IEP’s and LD’s?
How is this fair and equitable when comparing French and English schools?
How is this supporting the FI students with their right to education? When they will be limited to taking core French classes because of the small population of kids spread out over 3 FI programs?
Response 231: Thanks for your email. Thames Valley is proposing three FI schools of 300+ students each.
While each of these three proposed programs will offer fewer courses than two programs of 450+ students, the breadth of courses available would continue to be fulsome for all pupils. Thames Valley offers viable FI programs in Oxford, Elgin, and Middlesex that are significantly smaller (ranging from 100 - 200 pupils) and students are fully able to meet FI requirements in those programs.
Please note that all of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process.
Comment 225: How many students that fall within the Masonville Elementary catchment currently attend Louise Arbour French Immersion?
Response 225: Of the students attending Louise Arbour FI PS, 25 reside within the Masonville PS boundary.
Comment 224: If you know the numbers, how many of those students on average graduate and continue French Immersion for their high school secondary school education in French Immersion. (They'd currently head to Banting for that)?
Response 224: The 3-year average is 67%. Between 2021 and 2022 it was 77%.
Comment 223: We are not on board with re-zoning Medway highschool because we have siblings that will be separated otherwise. We feel VERY strongly about this.
Comment 222: Can we poll FI feeder schools for their views on 3rd FI option at Clarke Rd? Or can the board do that?
Response 222: You are welcome to send surveys to school families regarding the review. To be clear, the surveys should focus on the options under consideration rather than gauging public perceptions of schools in the community.
Your committee is welcome to include any public feedback that you have gathered to inform your submission.
Comment 221: Which secondary schools offer Advanced Placement courses?
Response 221: Participation in advanced placement courses can be coordinated in any of our secondary schools through the Guidance department and school administration, but are not part of the regular course offerings in Thames Valley.
Comment 220: Which secondary schools offer music programs (vocal, strings, band)? How many students are enrolled in each music specialty at each high school that offers a music program? How many of these students enrolled in the music programs are out of area at each high school that offers music?
Response 220: All of our Secondary Schools offer instrumental music. Music programs like Guitar, Strings, and Vocal Music are offered at some sites, but not all. These offerings can fluctuate from year to year, based on student enrolment choices. Out of Area students have access to the full range of programs in the school they are accepted at, space permitting.
Comment 219: In looking over the 2 scenarios proposed for feeder school changes, I'm wondering why the student numbers are different for A B Lucas when there are no changes in feeder schools between them. Each option involves losing the same 3 feeder schools and yet the student populations and thus percentages are different. Why? There are similar discrepancies for Clarke Rd and Medway schools. The scenarios are the same for those 2 but the numbers don't match.
Response 219: The numbers differ by the number of students “returned” to their home school and in this case, it's how Central SS are distributed. When Central students are capped at 1,050 in scenario 1, there will be a number of grade 9 students attending each particular home school site instead each year -- as those students progress through the grades, this results in additional students at the home school. In scenario 2, all Central students would attend their home school so a different number of students would be attending each school (some have large numbers, while some have fewer students returning) -- students are also distributed through all different grades not just grade 9.
Comment 218: What impact will occur because of the decrease in French Immersion students at each of the three schools if it is approved? Will it impact the available class selections? Will there be more of an impact in the upper-year courses?
Response 218: While each of these three proposed programs will offer fewer courses than two programs, the breadth of courses available would continue to be fulsome for all pupils. Thames Valley offers viable FI programs in Oxford, Elgin, and Middlesex that are significantly smaller (ranging from 100 - 200 pupils) and students are fully able to meet FI requirements in those programs.
Comment 217a: Can the Board confirm that there will be an adequate supply of teachers/French Immersion teachers to cover the demand in courses after the change of boundaries/redistribution of French Teachers? What will the staffing process be? Will there be a significant transfer of teachers in this process, or will there be an increase in the number of teachers hired? Or both?
Comment 217b: Is there difficulty now in any of the TVDSB jurisdictions to obtain French Immersion teachers in all grades? What about high school French Immersion teachers?
Response 217: The Thames Valley District School Board has internal and external staffing processes already in place to post open positions for application and hiring. Secondary Schools are not experiencing the same shortage of qualified French teachers that Elementary schools are. As the proposal about French Immersion is about the redistribution of existing pupils, there are no concerns about shortages of qualified teachers.
Comment 216: Within the assessment, was there any consideration in the accounting of growth for the French Immersion program?
Response 216: The proposal is to redistribute students from 2 secondary French Immersion sites to 3. The 3 sites will be able to accommodate increases in FI enrolment.
Comment 215: What's happening at B. Davison?
Response 215: Trustees will be considering the future use of B. Davison at the April 25, 2023, Board meeting. The agenda is available here.
Comment 214: Perhaps Clarke Rd can begin with new grade 9 FI students and grow over 4 years into a full program?
Response 214: Please consider including this feedback in the subcommittee report.
Comment 213: Was the possibility of one central French Immersion school of 1000 students considered? If not, why not?
Response 213: Based on the projected enrolment for secondary French Immersion, Central would not have sufficient space to accommodate all students from Banting and Laurier without moving all English track students from Central to other schools. Due to the Provincial moratorium on Pupil Accommodation Reviews, school boards are unable to move 50% or more of the in-area students currently attending Central.
Comment 212: What percentage of FI elementary students continue in French Immersion for secondary school years?
Response 212: For Laurier’s feeder schools, this varies between ~56% to ~67% of grade 8 students (3-year average).
Comment 211: Was consideration given by Board staff to redrawing English program boundaries for redistribution of students? If so, what factors prevented their pursuing that means to better balance high school enrollments?
Response 211: Both the initial attendance area review report and presentation provide two English track options for consideration of Trustees, both of which incorporate the redistribution of French Immersion students to a 3rd secondary school site. Both English track options include the balancing of enrolment across schools through realigning elementary school feeders to various secondary schools. More information is available through the initial AAR report and presentation at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 210: What is the potential enrollment capacity of B. Davison (after renovation)?
Response 210: The current capacity of B. Davison SS is 618. The school is currently being considered for adult, alternative, and continuing education programming. These learning spaces are program-specific, and the school would not have a specific capacity like a traditional grade 9-12 secondary school based on Ministry of Education room loading standards.
Comment 209: Why is 21 the base number used in calculations for OTG (On the Ground) capacity when the overall board average class size number is higher, and the Ontario maximum for a secondary school is higher?
Response 209: The Ministry of Education loads each secondary school classroom based on 21 students for the purposes of determining the OTG capacity of each school.
Comment 208: Is there a procedure in place to ensure TVDSB considers the environmental impacts of proposed school boundary changes, specifically in relation to bus commutes and increased (or decreased) pollution levels created from these changes?
Response 208: The Attendance Area Review procedure guides our work for boundary reviews. Reducing travel time for students is a key consideration in the context of balancing enrolment across schools. With the size of attendance areas and the location of schools, this is not always possible.
Comment 207: Could you please provide the following information side-by-side for the three rural schools in Middlesex County that border all the current Medway feeder public schools: North Middlesex District High School, Strathroy District Collegiate Institute (SDCI), and Lord Dorchester, along with the same data for Medway HS, AB Lucas SS, Montcalm HS, Oakridge SS, Saunders SS, and Westminster SS.
- current enrollment numbers
- current usage percentage
- 2024/25 projected enrollment numbers
- 2024/25 projected usage percentage
- 2028/29 projected enrollment number
- 2028/29 projected usage percentage
Response 207: Please see the table below for information regarding North Middlesex DHS and SDCI. The above information for the schools included in the review may be found in the initial AAR report and presentation.
|
|
Strathroy DCI |
North Middlesex DHS |
|
Current enrolment (body) Oct Official |
1193 |
129 |
|
Current use % |
91% |
30% |
|
24/25 projected |
1333 |
138 |
|
24/25 projected usage % |
101% |
32% |
|
28/29 projected |
1338 |
138% |
|
28/29 projected usage % |
102% |
32% |
Comment 206: In the eyes of TVDSB, what is the maximum acceptable capacity (both % and student population #) for Medway HS? Can you also provide this information for AB Lucas SS? It would be beneficial for everyone to know what these upper thresholds of acceptable attendance are for all high schools in the board if such a number has been determined.
Response 206: Both Medway HS and A.B. Lucas SS will continue to experience enrolment pressure. One of the objectives of the review is to balance enrolment across schools with an aim to secure new capital investment in north London for a new secondary school because there is insufficient student space in this part of the district to manage the growing enrolment. The maximum acceptable capacity will vary across sites and is based on several factors, including site size, ability to add portables, programming and operational considerations, and washroom counts. A specific “threshold of acceptable attendance” has not been established but the goal is to maintain utilizations as close to 100% as possible.
Comment 205: Given that Medway HS is located outside of the City of London boundary and serves students mainly from rural areas of Middlesex County, is it a TVDSB priority/objective to maintain a county-only based population at Medway HS?
Response 205: This is not an explicit objective of the review, and a variety of different options were explored as part of this analysis.
Comment 204: Was moving the whole school population of Jack Chambers PS to Medway PS considered in the review of split-feeder public school adjustments? If not, why?
Response 204: Yes, this was considered. However, given the current and projected utilization of Medway HS, this is not a viable long-term option.
Comment 203: Multiple concerns have been raised that eliminating the split of certain feeder schools will have a negative impact on both the environment and on student commute time in certain situations. Specifically, students currently attending West Nissouri PS who are currently zoned for Medway HS will be expected to commute a significantly longer distance to Lord Dorchester. This is not only detrimental to the environment but also has a negative impact on students’ ability to participate in extra-curricular activities given the significant distance from home and time required by both parents and students in getting to and from the school. While in many city-based instances, designating a split-feeder public school to one high school typically makes sense, in rural areas, this will not necessarily be the case. For example, Valleyview PS in Coldstream currently splits its population between Medway HS and SDCI based on the distance to each high school from the student's home address. Valleyview PS is not being considered as part of this LAAR process. Could West Nissouri PS be looked at in the same light as Valleyview PS and allowed to remain a split-feeder PS based on approximate geography, with choice given to families? Not everything fits into a tidy box in this LAAR process, and this is one occasion where allowing a split-feeder PS makes sense geographically, environmentally and with a time-conscious lens.
Response 203: We would recommend including your feedback in the school community report for Trustees’ consideration.
Comment 202: The Jack Chambers public school population is the only non-holding zone public school designated in both proposed new North End secondary school target areas (see map on page 45 of the Watson & Associates proposal). The area I am referring to is bound by Adelaide St to the east, Fanshawe Park Road to the south, Richmond Street to the west, along with a small area north of Sunningdale bound by Sunningdale Golf Course and Richmond Street (currently a public school holding zone). With the proposed changes of both options 1 and 2, students in the northern boundary of Jack Chambers PS could potentially start high school at Medway in grade 9, be asked to move to AB Lucas in grade 10, then be asked to move to the new NE or NW high school a 3rd time in their grade 12 (or subsequent) year. Will consideration be granted to those students to minimize the potential shifting of schools?
Response 202: It will take several years to receive approval for and construct a new secondary school in north London, the attendance area for which would be established once a business case is approved, and a site is secured. The process to establish that new boundary would provide opportunities for input from the school communities regarding legacy agreements for current students.
Comment 201: Why do the numbers for Medway HS decrease between Option 1 & and Option 2 when approximately 67 students would be returned from Central SS and approximately 12 students would be returned from Oakridge SS? Are there additional boundary changes between Option 1 and Option 2 that we are not seeing? We want to ensure we fully understand the differences between these two options, as we don't see any obvious reason for the reduction in numbers between the two options. In fact, it seems like the numbers should increase, not decrease based on the data in the report. Please clarify why the numbers are lower.
|
Year |
Option 1 |
Option 2 |
||
|
2024/25 |
1,411 |
114% |
1,381 |
112% |
|
2028/29 |
1,502 |
122% |
1,449 |
118% |
Response 201: In scenarios 1 and 2 the difference in the projections for Medway are based on the results of capping Central SS and where those grade 9 students are returned. In scenario 1, there is the assumption that grade 9 students are capped when the total enrolment at Central SS hits 1,050 as this is the functional capacity of the school. The number of grade 9 students is then distributed back into their home schools based on a factor derived from the 2022 student point data. This results in Medway having a larger number of grade 9 students entering year over year and as those larger grade 9 numbers are projected through the grades this results in slightly larger grade structures year over year compared to that found in scenario 2.
Comment 200: Can you please provide a static map that shows the changes to the entire Medway HS boundary for both Option 1 and Option 2? All static maps currently provided only show a small portion of the Medway HS boundaries.
Response 200: Please click to view a Medway HS boundary map in PDF format.
Comment 199: What is the largest AAR the TVDSB has undertaken previously (in terms of the student population and the number of schools)?
Response 199: The elementary review completed in London in June 2022 and the ongoing secondary school review in London this year are the largest boundary reviews undertaken by TVDSB. This is needed due to the significant increases in enrolment in recent years as well as the need to secure capital funding for new schools from the Ministry of Education.
Comment 198: This area review impacts students attending 19 public schools and 14 high schools in and around London. Each small change will have a domino effect on all the surrounding schools. Given how tightly tied attendance area decisions are for each school, is there a plan for which schools will be reviewed and discussed first? Will trustees be making decisions on a school-by-school basis? Or is this a board-wide all-or-nothing decision?
Response 198: The final AAR report will include a summary of the school community feedback as well as recommendations regarding the review. Trustees are expected to discuss the review in a comprehensive manner as many of the recommendations across schools are linked.
Comment 197: Please explain what factors are considered when determining a school's "functional capacity." It was noted that Central SS has a "functional capacity" of 1050. Please provide the "functional capacity" numbers for Medway HS and for AB Lucas SS. Both schools will be over-capacity in all scenarios, with AB Lucas being the highest over-capacity secondary school in London if Option 2 is approved. Other schools that will be over capacity would benefit from knowing their school's "functional capacity" as well.
Response 197: The maximum functional capacity will vary across sites and is based on several factors, including site size, ability to add portables, programming and operational considerations, and washroom counts. A specific maximum has not been established for each site, but the goal is to maintain utilizations as close to 100% as possible. For Central SS specifically, the school’s functional capacity based on the size of the site and its current programming is 1,050 students. This is significantly larger than its On-The-Ground (OTG) capacity of 786.
Comment 196: Why isn't a full and comprehensive review taking place that also includes SDCI and North Middlesex HS when decisions regarding Medway HS's boundaries are being made? Both secondary schools border Medway HS's feeder schools, with Valleyview being a feeder school split between Medway and SDCI based on geography. If there is a capacity for students at North Middlesex HS, including this HS in the review would make sense.
Response 196: The current AAR was initiated to review the boundaries of schools with portions of their attendance areas within the City of London.
Comment 195: Given the size and scope of this area review, will a dedicated board meeting be scheduled in June with the LAAR as the ONLY agenda item?
Response 195: Per the Attendance Area Review procedure, there will be multiple meetings to present the final report, receive additional public feedback through delegations to the Board, and for Trustees to make a decision.
Comment 194: Is there a procedure in place to ensure TVDSB considers the environmental impacts of proposed school boundary changes, specifically in relation to bus commutes and increased (or decreased) pollution levels created from these changes?
Response 194: The Attendance Area Review procedure guides our work. Reducing travel time for students is a critical component of the analysis, within the context of balancing enrolment. This may not always be possible given the sizes of attendance areas and the locations of schools. Student Transportation Services’ Service Design Standards may be found here.
Comment 193: Please explain the rationale behind removing feeder school splits.
Was the reasoning behind this decision solely to keep students attending school with their public school cohort? Did any other factors influence this decision?
Response 193: The recommendation to eliminate the splitting of elementary school feeders across multiple secondary school sites was made to avoid splitting students by geography, which would keep classmates together as they progress from elementary to secondary school.
Comment 192: Were distance and travel time, especially in rural areas, given any consideration when making this decision? This is a huge factor in the daily lives of these students. Were environmental factors relating to increased commute times considered when making this decision? How does this decision align with Canada's policy of "zero emission by 2030"?
Response 192: The Attendance Area Review procedure guides our work. Reducing travel time for students is a critical component of the analysis, within the context of balancing enrolment. This may not always be possible given the sizes of attendance areas and the locations of schools. Student Transportation Services’ Service Design Standards may be found here.
Comment 191: What is the purpose of returning students to their home boundary, if they have already been accepted at an out of boundary school?
Response 191: This recommendation was made to balance enrolment across schools.
Comment 190: What is the margin of error on the data included in the TVDSB LAAR report and the Watson & Associates report?
Response 190: The projections are based on the best available data at the time and assumptions are based on actual enrolment data and relevant demographic data from the Census.
Comment 189: What is the definition of a specialized program? Art, dance, or IB, which count as specialized programs, could be taught at any school. Why then is French Immersion not considered specialized?
Response 189: Specialized programs are often unique to a particular school and require special infrastructure supports. French Immersion must be staffed with French qualified teachers, but the FI courses themselves can be taught in any school setting by qualified staff.
Comment 188: How will FI at Clarke Road be staffed?
Response 188: The Thames Valley District School Board has internal and external staffing processes already in place to post open positions for application and hiring.
Comment 187: We’d like the breakdown of FI students choosing to come to Banting over the past three years from the feeder schools. And what are the projected numbers for 2023-24?
Response 187: The 3-year average of grade 8 students from Banting’s elementary feeder schools who progress to grade 9 French Immersion ranges from ~44% to ~66%. Please note that this does not include the additional students who enrol at Banting from other schools (e.g., coterminous board, another school district). Projections for future school years rely on historic progression rates as a basis for what can be expected in future years.
Comment 186: Why is the proposal focused only on Clarke Road and not Montcalm and Westminster?
Response 186: This attendance area review included a comprehensive analysis of all secondary school boundaries in London. Montcalm SS and Westminster SS are also proposed to receive students.
Comment 185: Were any options for filling Clarke Road considered other than introducing a new FI program to it?
Response 185: As part of this review, Clarke Road SS is proposed to receive additional students from southeast London. This would eliminate the splitting of Summerside PS across two secondary school sites.
Comment 184: FI is an optional program, which means that projections of students who will transfer to/take up a spot at Clarke Road (or indeed Banting or Laurier) are especially uncertain. If the goal is to fill Clarke Road, why is the Board not addressing the problem entirely with boundary changes to the much bigger and more fixed English program?
Response 184: Establishing an FI program at Clarke Road SS would provide enrolment pressure relief to both Banting and Laurier as well as provide a FI site in an area in London currently without such a program. Clarke Road SS is also proposed to receive English track students from southeast London as part of this review would eliminate the splitting of Summerside PS across two secondary school sites.
Comment 183: How does the Board define 100% full? When is a high school “full”?
Response 183: This is dependent on several factors, including the size of the school, types of programs that are offered, site size to accommodate the placement of portables, and washroom capacity. Timetabling and the fact that some students do no take full course loads allow schools to operate above the capacity of the building and without needing portables, in some cases.
Comment 182: What are the impacts of a school going over capacity?
Response 182: Once classroom space is no longer available to accommodate students within the school building, temporary accommodation measures (portable classrooms) need to be brought on site. In cases with significant overutilization, capping a school to new registrants may need to be considered until space becomes available.
Comment 181: How long has Louise Arbour been a feeder school for Banting?
Response 181: Louise Arbour French Immersion Public School was created in 2014 on the site of the former Sir George Ross Secondary School.
Comment 180: Which high school did Huron Heights students previously feed into?
Response 180: Most students in the Huron Heights area of London feed into Montcalm Secondary School.
Comment 179: Can we please enable closed captioning on Teams for our public consultation meetings? It’s an accessibility issue.
Response 179: Please see this link for information regarding closed captioning in MS Teams. This will need to be enabled during the call and recording.
Comment 178: Does “chat” at hybrid public consultation get saved and forwarded to Board along with recording?
Response 178: It does not. As context in the chat box could sometimes be lost, we recommend capturing feedback through formal minutes and the school community report.
Comment 177: My one daughter currently attends Saunders and my youngest daughter attends Byron Southwood, graduating in June and enrolled in Saunders for September 2023. We live in Byron. Are my kids safe to attend Saunders moving forward?
Response 177: Byron Southwood PS is currently a feeder school to Saunders SS and this is not proposed to change under either of the two scenarios currently under consideration.
Comment 176: I have two children that currently attend Stoney Creek PS, one is in Grade 8 and has identified Medway SS as her preferred school. Will these proposed boundary changes affect her ability to attend Medway SS next school year? Will it affect my other daughter's ability to attend in three years' time?
Please note that we live north of Sunningdale Rd and are not in the typical catchment area for Stoney Creek PS - those boundaries were changed a few years ago and the kids have been grandfathered.
Response 176: Stoney Creek PS is currently designated to A.B. Lucas SS and this is not proposed to change through either of the two scenarios currently being considered. To attend Medway HS, current Stoney Creek PS students would need to apply to the school as out of area students, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 175: Am I correct in my understanding that high schools in London are designated based on my child's elementary school, not on our residential address?
We attend Eagle Heights, which is a HUGE school, with a huge attendance area. Am I correct in assuming that under the proposed changes, students who graduate from Eagle Heights would attend HB Beal, regardless of where they live? For example, kids who live at Oxford and Wonderland attend Eagle Heights and are significantly closer to Banting or Oakridge than Beal.
Response 175: Eagle Heights PS is currently split between Sir Frederick Banting SS and Central SS, with an option for students residing in an easterly portion of the attendance area to attend H.B. Beal SS (shared boundary area with Central SS).
Scenario 1 proposes to designate Eagle Heights PS in its entirety to Banting while Scenario 2 proposes to designate the school to Central SS. Under both options, the easterly portion of the Eagle Heights PS attendance area would have the option to attend H.B. Beal SS. The interactive map at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR illustrates the current and proposed boundaries and is searchable by address.
Comment 174: I moved to this neighbourhood to attend a specific school. How does the programming at Montcalm Secondary School compare? What does tech emphasis mean?
Response 174: Students at Montcalm SS can take courses in all pathways to be successful at post-secondary destinations in the workplace, in college, and in university. This school offers Technology Emphasis programming, among many other course offerings.
Comment 173: With the new boundaries, our student will be expected to switch schools for her grade 12 year. What would be the steps needed to have students grandfathered in to remain at their current school to complete their high school career?
Response 173: Trustees will consider legacy agreements for current students as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to provide feedback regarding these considerations as part of the school community reports that each secondary school subcommittee will be preparing.
Comment 172: We live in the area that was formerly known as the "Bostwick Holding Zone at Sir Isaac Brock", and our students have only ever attended Brock. As of Sept. 2022, that area became known instead as "Bostwick Holding Zone at Victoria P.S.", although students in the neighbourhood who were already students at Brock, as well as their siblings, could continue attending Sir Isaac Brock until the new Southwest elementary school opens. According to the attendance review proposals, Sir Isaac Brock will be a feeder school for Westminster if the changes are approved. Geographically, however, our area is "Holding Zone at Victoria" which is listed as going to Saunders. These children would have never attended Victoria Public School, nor will they be graduating from the new Southwest school, which has not yet been built. Would a student entering grade 9 in 2024 from this area attend Westminster with their peers, or would they attend Saunders based on housing geography? It was stated that the schools would not be split in these boundary changes. When the new southwest elementary school opens, would students graduating from THAT school attend Saunders?
Response 172: Under both scenarios, students from the Bostwick holding zone (holding at Sir Isaac Brock PS or Victoria PS) would attend Saunders SS as this area will form part of the new Southwest London Elementary School when it opens, which would also be designated to Saunders SS.
Comment 171: Under the proposed area change my son would be attending Central. Will Central be changing their curriculum to include technology courses? I am under the understanding that Central currently has a academic focus.
Response 171: London Central Secondary School offers introductory technology courses in grades 9 and 10. Students in Thames Valley can access the full range of technology courses at their Technology Emphasis School. Transportation is provided to students wishing to enroll in these schools.
Comment 170: Can you please clarify the guidelines around attending a home secondary school if students are attending Arthur Ford for the APPLE Program and attending Lester B Pearson for their enhanced arts programming?
Is attendance/enrollment at a secondary school based on the feeder elementary school or the home address (and that elementary school boundary) of families that have students attending the above listed schools?
Response 170: The APPLE program is not affected by this review.
Per TVDSB’s historic practice, students from Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts have been able to attend Central SS upon graduation from grade 8. Both scenarios 1 and 2 in this review propose that Pearson students be designated solely to their home secondary school (based on address).
Comment 169: Is it possible to get some details regarding the APPLE Program specifically?
We have Arthur Ford as one of the feeder schools, and the APPLE Program is at Arthur Ford.
Can someone please share information on what has been the procedure in the past for students/families of that program regarding which high school they were/are designated to attend? Have there been any changes to the high school designation procedure within the last 10 years since the APPLE Program has been hosted at Arthur Ford? It may be beneficial for the Committee leaders to have data to review related to the number of students in the APPLE Program who are within the Saunders school boundaries compared to those who are outside of it. Is that information that could also be shared?
Response 169: Students involved in the APPLE program have always attended their home school. The APPLE program is exclusively elementary. Enrolment in it does not impact the secondary school destination.
Comment 168: There is already a shortage of French Immersion Teachers, by expanding the current 2 FI to 3 FI programs in 3 schools will this impact the availability of teaching staff or courses offered?
Response 168: Secondary schools are not experiencing the same shortage of qualified French teachers that elementary schools are. As the proposal about French Immersion is about the redistribution of existing pupils, there are no concerns about shortages of qualified teachers.
Comment 167: What is the current enrolment at Central SS?
Response 167: There are currently 1,040 registered students at the school.
Comment 166: The currently proposed London Attendance Area Review for London Ontario Secondary Schools have created concern for our children in this community. Many children in London will be uprooted from their current high school and moved if either of the School Board proposals are accepted in June. My children attend at Cedar Hollow PS and we were already affected by the re-zoning in 2015. Historically, most graduates of Cedar Hollow opted for Lucas S.S. and have older siblings and even parents that have gone to Lucas S.S. Both options being voted on in the rezoning proposal will result in graduates no longer having a choice and being forced to attend Montcalm S.S. Cedar Hollow graduates are not the logical choice to be re-zoned. There are other public schools much closer to Montcalm Secondary that would be the more logical choice to be rezoned. There is no safe way to walk to Montcalm SS currently from our neighbourhood.
I understand that filling Montcalm Secondary will allow TVDSB to apply for a new high school to be built in North London. Despite most other area secondary school enrolment exceeding capacity, the Provincial guidelines state that all schools must be at capacity in order to qualify for a new secondary school build to be approved. Isn’t there a way they can prove the need for a new secondary school without, rezoning and uprooting children from their current school? This seems unnecessarily cruel after finally experiencing some sense of "normalcy" back into their lives after 3 years of uncertainty and instability caused by the pandemic.
I want to have the choice of where to send my children. We moved to this neighbourhood specifically so that they could attend Lucas S.S. If either proposal goes through, we will be pulling our children from the public system after grade 8 and sending them to Mother Theresa Catholic S.S. Our neighbourhood association created a survey to gather as much feedback from the community as possible and the survey data shows that 98% of respondents will not send their child(ren) to the newly designated school (Montcalm Secondary). The majority will remove them from the public system over to local Catholic School if no other option is given. Please reconsider your proposal.
Comment 165: Please continue to allow out-of-area children to attend the high school they desire.
The schools seem to be thriving under the current policy that allows for out-of-area students. I believe this is, at least in part, a result of allowing kids to select a school environment that meets their interests but also because it helps ensure a diverse school body with children from different backgrounds and locations of the city mingling at school.
Comment 164: I will have 3 children attending Medway as of September 2023, all of whom are technically considered out of boundary but came from one of Medway’s elementary feeder schools. If, and when the boundary changes occur, will there be any grandfathering of children currently attending the school?
Response 164: Trustees will consider legacy agreements for current students as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to provide feedback regarding these considerations as part of the school community reports that each secondary school subcommittee will be preparing.
Comment 163: I’ve received two LAAR notices, and I’m not clear on whether it impacts my grade 8 child or not. Are Parkview students potentially being re-zoned for another high school for this fall? If so, which of the public meetings should I be attending?
Response 163: The boundaries for secondary schools are generally determined by elementary school feeders. Parkview PS is currently a feeder school to Medway, and this is not proposed to change at this time. Notices of public consultation meetings are being sent to families at elementary feeder schools (of secondary schools involved in the review) so all families can attend.
Comment 162: My son is in grade 10 at Medway and we live in Kilworth. Is he still good to go there? Thanks, I’m not finding the interactive map easy to use.
Response 162: The boundaries for secondary schools are generally determined by elementary school feeders. Parkview PS, the elementary school for Kilworth, is currently a feeder school to Medway and this is not proposed to change at this time.
Comment 161: Do I send my daughter to Saunders - where she is supposed to go? Or do I send my daughter where she wants to go - Westminster? Should I ask for an exemption? Or both? She’s only in gr. 7 right now, but I want to be prepared. Thank you.
Response 161: An out of area exemption request would have to be made at the school where you would like your child to attend. Please note that this would need to be made following the implementation of any boundary changes and during the usual school registration process. A decision regarding this review has not yet been made by Trustees as public consultation is currently underway.
Comment 160a: It doesn't make any sense at all to compromise the level of courses and education that is presently offered at Banting by splitting and sending a small portion to Clarke Road where it will just pull on more staff that we don't have, narrow courses and availability. Are you just trying to isolate the "east" end students? Why are you taking something that works well and jeopardizing our kids’ future learning? This makes no sense. If the reason is you want to enrich Clarke Road, do it by adding other programs unique to their school, not by dipping into the FI pool.
Response 160a: While each of these three proposed programs will offer fewer courses than two programs of 450+ students, the breadth of courses available would continue to be fulsome for all pupils. Thames Valley offers viable FI programs in Oxford, Elgin, and Middlesex that are significantly smaller (ranging from 100 - 200 pupils) and students are fully able to meet FI requirements in those programs.
Secondary Schools are not experiencing the same shortage of qualified French teachers that Elementary schools are. As the proposal about French Immersion is about the redistribution of existing pupils, there are no concerns about shortages of qualified teachers.
Comment 160b: I can't understand why you want to do this.
Response 160b: The intent of the review is to balance enrolment across schools. Banting is overutilized and space is available at Clarke Road SS to accommodate French Immersion programming. There are several boundary changes being considered for English track high schools as well to better utilize existing student spaces that are available.
Comment 160c: But why Clarke Road? There are other ways and programs to enhance the school, add to its curriculum without changing the French.
Response 160c: There is limited space available at secondary schools across the City of London. Clarke Road SS is the only school with sufficient consolidated space to redistribute the FI program.
Comment 159: Hello, I have two grade 10s attending Lucas Secondary. We live near Old North Public School and have been accepted into Lucas at the beginning of Grade 9. I am wondering with new zoning if you are considering grandfathering this decision and allowing existing students to stay in their routine and with support for the final few years in high school. As you can imagine as a parent, I would be worried about what the disruption would be to my teenagers.
Response 159: Trustees will consider legacy agreements for current students as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to provide feedback regarding these considerations as part of the school community reports that each secondary school subcommittee will be preparing.
Comment 158: As part of the public input process is it up to the Secondary School LAARC Committee to connect with the elementary feeder schools that are/can be impacted by these changes? Is the input from elementary schools coordinated by those schools independently, if they decide to participate or provide input?
Response 158: All secondary school subcommittee meetings will be open to the public and elementary families are being invited to attend to provide input into this process. There will also be an opportunity to make public delegations to Trustees following the presentation of the final attendance area review report later this year once all the subcommittee feedback is received.
Comment 157: How can we contact our sub-committees directly if we cannot attend the sub-committee meetings? I understand that the TVDSB will post notes and videos AFTER the meetings. However, if parents can't attend the sub-committee meetings how do they have their concerns/suggestions raised to the sub-committees directly? It would be beneficial to all if the sub-committees of each school could post an email so we can contact them directly to provide input. Can the board help with this process?
Response 157: The best way to reach out to the subcommittee if you are unable to attend the meeting is through the school’s principal.
Comment 156: Will all out of area students in every secondary school be sent back to their home school once changes are implemented?
Response 156: Students would be expected to attend their designated secondary school following the implementation of any boundary changes.
Comment 155: Why not explore the option of having a centrally located full French immersion high school? There are several high schools in the city not at full enrolment... possibly Westminster? Then programming would not be an issue and transportation would be more central. For example, kids in Ilderton wouldn't be bused to Clarke Road (that seems very far).
If this is not an option, can the boundaries be such that they are geographically closer? For example, why are kids from the Ilderton area going to be bused to Clarke Road... Banting is much closer. There must be people who want French immersion living closer to Clarke Road. Why would kids from Sherwood Fox now be bused to Westminster when they are closer to Saunders? Why are kids in Komoka/Kilworth area going to join as a feeder to Oakridge? There are closer schools to Oakridge than that. It is confusing to me.
Response 155: Due to a Provincial moratorium for school closures, TVDSB does not have the ability to close an English track school to facilitate its conversion to a French Immersion site. Secondary school boundaries are based on elementary school feeders and every effort is made to ensure students attend their most proximal school, subject to available space and projected enrolment consideration. Please note that students from Komoka-Kilworth reside within the attendance area of Parkview PS, which is a feeder school to Medway HS rather than Oakridge SS.
Comment 154: I understand my child may be impacted by boundary changes. My child is on an IEP and suffers from anxiety. Changing schools in grade 10 after just getting used to Saunders will be very detrimental to their mental health. What accommodations are available to support a student in this position?
Response 154: All our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students involved in this process. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process should families be required to switch schools.
Comment 153: Just looking for some clarification on why students in Lucan may no longer be able to attend Medway. Parkhill High School is not an acceptable solution. Students should not be required to travel almost 30 minutes to attend school. If capacity is an issue maybe consider building a new high school in Ilderton to accommodate the county students if growth in London is taking over the mainly rural communities high school. Medway has always been Lucan' s feeder school no need to change that. Find a better solution.
Response 153: There are no changes proposed to the designated secondary school for Wilberforce PS. All feeder schools for Medway HS are being notified of the attendance area review subcommittee meetings that are being held by the school as there are potential changes that would affect West Nissouri PS, Cedar Hollow PS, and Jack Chambers PS, which are currently partial feeder schools to Medway HS.
Details regarding the review may be found here: www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 152: Medway has always and should always be a RURAL SCHOOL. There is no need for Lucan children, or Ilderton children to attend a school not even part of the TVDSB school board! I strongly think you need to rethink these boundaries and keep Medway as a rural school. These kids don’t need to be bussed all over the the city, or outside of the county even…it’s not fair and there are other scenarios that should be considered.
Response 152: There are no changes proposed to the designated secondary school for Wilberforce PS. All feeder schools for Medway HS are being notified of the attendance area review subcommittee meetings that are being held by the school as there are potential changes that would affect West Nissouri PS, Cedar Hollow PS, and Jack Chambers PS, which are currently partial feeder schools to Medway HS.
Details regarding the review may be found here: www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 151: We are keen on having our children attend Medway High School. Although this is early for our family yet, will the Stoney Creek neighbourhood still have access to Medway? Is there going to be another review of the boundaries prior to the fall of 2028?
Response 151: Stoney Creek PS is a designated feeder school to A.B. Lucas SS and this is not proposed to change as part of this review. There are no additional secondary school reviews planned for 2028, but boundary changes will be required if a new secondary school is approved in north London by the Ministry of Education.
Comment 150: Does each meeting only pertain to the school location the meeting is held at?
Response 150: Each secondary school involved in the review is hosting school level meetings to obtain feedback from their school community, including elementary school families who may be impacted by the potential changes.
Comment 149: If a boundary change occurs would it affect students currently attending Medway or just new students entering grade 9?
Response 149: The earliest date of implementation of any boundary changes is September 2024. Students would be expected to attend their designated schools at that time. Trustees may consider legacy agreements for current students to attend prior schools as part of their decision-making process.
Comment 148: What does "with limits" mean for Option 1 as it pertains to London Central Secondary School. What are the current limits on random acceptance of out of area students and will the post September 2024 limits be any more restrictive? Is Option 1 fully "status quo" as noted? Thank you.
Response 148: There is currently an enrolment limit of approximately 1,050 students at Central SS due to the size of the school and its site. Option 1 for Central SS would be to keep the school as status quo as it relates to out of area students. The school would continue to accept out of area students with some adjustments to its home boundary in order to designate elementary feeders to one secondary school.
Comment 147: If the boundaries change for Belmont kids to go to LDSS are students that are currently attending EESS allowed to remain at EESS with busing available to them?
Response 147: The earliest date of implementation of any boundary changes is September 2024. Students would be expected to attend their designated schools at that time. Trustees may consider legacy agreements for current students to attend prior schools as part of their decision-making process.
Comment 146: I attended the LAAR info session at Lucas HS last night and was told that the current plan is to return all students back to their “home” secondary school, including out of area students who currently attend Beal. I have read the documents online, and my understanding is that this does NOT apply to Beal students who live out of area. Please confirm.
Response 146: There are no changes proposed to the attendance area of H.B. Beal SS.
Comment 145: My daughter is currently in Grade 7 this year at Cleardale, and we are assuming next year she will still be able to attend Cleardale regardless but wanted to confirm? She has gone to that school since Junior Kindergarten and has well established social circles/friends at Cleardale and neither one of us would want her to have to go to any school other than Cleardale next year.
We are not sure which high school she will attend in Grade 9 (2024-2025 school year), but we are currently leaning towards South with Laurier as a 2nd choice. We will decide next year in Grade 8. Might these potential changes impact which school she is allowed to go to?
Response 145: Cleardale PS is currently a split feeder school between South and Wilfrid Laurier. The attendance area review underway for secondary schools in London contemplates designating Cleardale as a feeder school to Westminster SS commencing in the 2024-2025 school year. Each secondary school involved in the review is hosting school level meetings to obtain community feedback regarding the potential changes. More details, including background material and interactive maps, are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 144: I have a comment about the proposed boundaries if a new French Immersion programme is started.
We live five minutes away from Banting but are north of Fanshawe Park Road. The proposed boundaries would have students who live in our area travel to a school that is at least twenty minutes away in good traffic.
It seems to make no sense to have everyone in the north of the city travel that far. As more families move into new subdivisions, there will eventually have to be another shuffling of students when Clarke Road SS becomes overcrowded.
That has already seemed to happen at the elementary level. When we moved here, students went to Old North (Ryerson) PS. They were then switched to Masonville PS. Now, there seems to be a proposal to send them back to Old North PS.
Can the boundaries not be drawn with a consideration to near future population dynamics so that students aren’t moved around so much? What will happen if families have younger children who will be soon attending secondary school?
Also, the current proposal seems to be making many students sit sedentary on buses for more time than necessary as they travel to a school that is far away from their home when there is one much closer.
The proposed boundaries don’t make sense to me. Can they be re-considered?
Response 144: The options prepared as part of the attendance area review are based on realigning elementary school feeders to various secondary schools and factor in future enrolment projections, including student yields resulting from new developments as well as migration to the area.
Secondary schools involved in this review are holding school level meetings to obtain feedback from both secondary and elementary school families. More information regarding the review, including background material and interactive maps, are available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 143: Could you please ensure in future reports and documents that all pages including those with charts, diagrams, or slides have a page number so it is easier to reference content when asking questions/corresponding about information?
In recommending French Immersion programs at 3 locations, does this consider French Immersion enrollment trends at the elementary level? Could you provide information on elementary French Immersion trends within the final report?
Transportation considerations are important. In the Pupil Accommodation and Facility Organization Procedure it indicates in 4.2.5 that “Accommodation option(s) included in an Initial Senior Administration Report will provide and/or address… How student transportation would be affected if the proposed changes were to take place.” How will this procedure apply to the current Attendance Area Review? Is it possible to provide information on transportation impacts in advance of the final report? How will the new study on students using London Transit for transportation be considered or be impacted by the attendance review?
I appreciate that the recommendations are trying to eliminate feeder school splits, however, is there a recognition that regardless of this, students will continue to be split up at this transition point, as some may choose to continue their secondary education at a Catholic high school, or move from French Immersion elementary to English secondary education.
These changes significantly impact elementary feeder schools yet there is no mechanism for these schools to provide feedback. How can this be addressed?
In the presentation slides it refers to OTG (Loading at 21). Although this term is explained in the consultants’ report, could you please asterisk this term and provide explanations for this and other terms on future slides where short forms/abbreviations are used?
Could you clarify if it is 1 or 2 high schools that are being proposed? In some cases, there is a reference to there being a singular new north secondary school such as in the slide title “New Secondary School” yet 2 different sites are referred to… New NE #1 and New NW #1. A business case process has been referred to. If there are 2 new secondary schools proposed, will a related business case be for 1 new school at a time or for both at once?
I would expect that there will be a significant amount of information collected through this Q &A portal, and through the various school-level meetings. I do not feel that the current timeline provides sufficient time to receive, review, and provide feedback to trustees on a Final Report Review before the trustees’ vote. Can this timeline be lengthened? And/or could additional information be provided in the interim?
There were already several concerns about the impact on student mental health mentioned in the Q & A period of the live recorded meeting. Although representatives acknowledged these are to be addressed, I cannot find a single mention of mental health considerations within the reports. I acknowledge that this information may not be required as per the established Attendance Area Review Procedure, however, this procedure has not been updated since March 16, 2016. We are more aware of the importance of considering mental health in general, and because of the disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. This review has already caused students and families significant concern and anxiety. I feel it is important that information is noted within the final report on how transitions would be undertaken to help address mental health concerns. Will this be done?
In the Pupil Accommodation and Facility Organization Procedure, which is included in the Related Policies and Procedures section, there is a reference to School Information Profiles. Where are these profiles available? I would like to learn more about the school my student may change to.
Will feedback from the sub-committee meetings be available for public viewing, and/or how will it be included in the final report?
The review outlines 2 options in which recommended changes to Central and French Immersion programs are clearly identified through sub-titles, data about the number of students impacted, and discussion about why these changes are recommended. However, there is a 3rd ‘option’ involved in these recommendations – which is the adjustment of feeder schools and secondary school boundaries. Although there are charts outlining changes in feeder schools, it feels like the structure and detail in the report attempt to minimize or hide these changes regarding secondary school boundaries. Is it possible to restructure the report so that these changes are more clearly addressed, and additional information is provided to understand the impact of each proposed change, and why the recommendations need a combination of solutions to achieve the goals of the review?
Legacy arrangements are not discussed in the reports. I feel it is very important to discuss these – what the options are, and how many students would be impacted. A significant basis for these recommendations is the prioritization of a student’s entire educational journey. Subsequently, I feel it is important that legacy options are outlined to address the concerns of students already enrolled and attending secondary schools that will be affected. I would like to emphasize that this extends to French Immersion students who would be moved from their current secondary school sites. Our family’s experience is that French Immersion students become part of the overall student body of their school and do not limit their interactions to only other French Immersion students. Through the classes they take in English and their participation in extracurricular activities, they make strong connections with other students in the English program. In our case where my child has attended Banting French Immersion for 2 years, they would be separated from most of their friends if they had to move to the Clarke Road location for their final years of high school.
If changes are accepted, but not put in place until the 2025/2026 school year would this delay the submission of a business case for a new secondary school in north London?
It sounded from discussion in the Q & A portion of the live recorded meeting that it would be approximately 6 to 7 years to secure approval and funding to build and open a new secondary school in north London. Considering this, why does the accommodation review report not look at attendance projections in the 7 to 10-year time range?
If I am reviewing the maps correctly, there would be a pocket of the Banting Secondary English boundary that would extend north of Fanshawe Park Road past Sunningdale Road. Students in this area would be able to attend Banting for English instruction, but would it be possible for students in this area to attend Banting for the French Immersion program rather than Clark Road which is much further away?
Thank you very much for the online home for all of this information, the ability to attend meetings virtually, to have a meeting recording, all of the documents available online in one location, and for the Q&A section. It is greatly appreciated.
Response 143: The initial attendance area review report included numbered pages and we will ensure the final report will as well. The analysis completed for this review factors in enrolment projections for elementary schools, including those offering French Immersion. Information regarding transportation impacts from this review will be available shortly and will be posted to the Q and A section of the www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR website. This information will also be included in the final attendance area review report. Currently, the transportation analysis is predicated on students taking school bus transportation to school rather than London Transit.
One of the aims of this review is to eliminate elementary school feeder splits across multiple secondary school sites, particularly across some English track schools where students from the same elementary school are currently split when they enroll in high school because of the location of their residence. Both the English track and French Immersion boundaries being considered are based on elementary and secondary school feeder arrangements.
Each secondary school involved in the review is provided with representation on the attendance area review committee. School subcommittees are hosting secondary school meetings to gather public feedback. Per the Attendance Area Review Procedure, the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities must be families who are currently at the secondary school. The subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate is welcome to do so. Elementary families are being notified of subcommittee meetings and are invited to attend to provide input into the attendance area review process. The timelines for gathering public feedback as well as the preparation of the final attendance area review report are outlined in the procedure.
It is expected that one new secondary school will be required in north London in the coming years to manage the enrolment growth occurring in this area. There are several potential locations for this school, including both in northwest and northeast London. The site for this new school has not yet been finalized. Our intention is to submit a business case for a new secondary school in London upon completion of this attendance area review, with the timing dependent on when an opportunity to do so from the Ministry of Education presents itself. Better utilizing our available school spaces will ultimately strengthen the business case when it is submitted. The enrolment projections for this review have a planning horizon through 2028-2029. These trends are generally expected to continue. The projections will be updated based on any new information and student yields expected from new developments that will be received between the review’s implementation year and when the business case is submitted.
All Thames Valley schools offer the same support, opportunities, and resources to students. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity to collaborate with staff as part of the student transition process to ensure families are well-supported. This will include the formation of transition committees.
School Information Profiles are prepared for Pupil Accommodation Reviews, which are separate and distinct from boundary reviews. Attendance Area Reviews follow a different process, as per the Attendance Area Review Procedure.
All the school subcommittee reports will be included in the final attendance area review report that will be presented to Trustees in June. This information will be available publicly through the Board’s website and circulated directly to school subcommittees.
Both the initial attendance area review report and presentation provide two English track options for consideration of Trustees, both of which incorporate the redistribution of French Immersion students to a 3rd secondary school site. Both English track options include the balancing of enrolment across schools through realigning elementary school feeders to various secondary schools.
Legacy agreements will be considered by Trustees a part of the decision-making process. School subcommittees are encouraged to make recommendations regarding legacy agreements as part of the school community reports that are being prepared.
Comment 142: With any school boundary changes, the legacy agreement for the current students should be offered automatically. There is already a precedent: the legacy agreement was offered when Louis Arbour French Immersion School was built, and the boundary changed. Students who were already attending Lord Roberts had the choice to stay at Lord Roberts or to switch to Louis Arbour. Why did trustees not consider offering families the legacy agreement for the current students in the proposed changes? Especially after going though the pandemic time of switching back and forth between in-person and online learning, the legacy agreement should have been offered automatically to provide some stability and reduce stress for students.
Response 142: Trustees will consider legacy agreement options as part of the decision-making process. School subcommittees are encouraged to provide feedback regarding legacy agreements as part of the school community reports.
Comment 143: I support the current initiative to balance enrolments across existing schools. Doing so should lead to better outcomes overall.
That being said, I feel strongly that the board should allow students who are enrolled in a high school to finish their education at their current schools. The boundary reallocation should apply only to incoming grade 9 students in September 2024. My reasons are as follows:
Students have already experienced significant disruptions in their lives due to the pandemic. To put students through yet another significant disruption would be irresponsible for the well being of TVDSB students. As well, limiting the change to incoming grade 9 students would give the necessary space and time for schools and teachers to adjust gradually and incrementally. A massive reallocation of students, on the other hand, would potentially cause major disruption that would harm student well being and success.
The one question I have is: what steps are being taken to consult parents? I am surprised there are no mechanisms beyond this website and the school meetings to allow parents and other stakeholders to provide their feedback. I am also surprised at the lack of communication with parents, especially those who may not have a strong grasp of English. I would expect more effort by the board to be inclusive and barrier-free given the major changes being contemplated. What efforts are being made to engage parents who may face significant socio-economic and cultural barriers to participation? What efforts have been made to engage student input?
Finally, who designed this policy process? I am surprised, in this day and age, that the board isn’t using state of the art policy consultation and decision-making processes for such a big decision. For instance, research shows that collaborative governance is more effective at generating better solutions and enhanced legitimacy for policy outcomes.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide some input.
Response 143: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism for obtaining public feedback.
The subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate and provide feedback is encouraged to do so. Notices regarding school-level meetings are being circulated to both secondary and elementary school families.
Following the review of all the feedback received a final attendance area review report will be prepared for Trustees’ consideration. This will include a further opportunity for public input through delegations to Trustees at a Board meeting before a decision is made.
Comment 142: Is there a link we can watch the meeting that took place on Wednesday RE: Valleyview students going to Medway? Thanks!
Response 142: There are no changes proposed to the designated secondary school for Valleyview Central PS. All feeder schools for Medway HS are being notified of the attendance area review subcommittee meetings that are being held by the school as there are potential changes that would affect West Nissouri PS, Cedar Hollow PS, and Jack Chambers PS, which are currently partial feeder schools to Medway HS.
Details regarding the review may be found here: www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
The videos for Medway’s meetings will be uploaded to this page as soon as they are available: https://www.tvdsb.ca/en/our-board/laar-secondary-medway-ss.aspx
Comment 141: Oxbow should continue to be a feeder school for Medway High School.
Response 141: There are no changes proposed to the designated secondary school for Oxbow PS. All feeder schools for Medway HS are being notified of the attendance area review subcommittee meetings that are being held by the school as there are potential changes that would affect West Nissouri PS, Cedar Hollow PS, and Jack Chambers PS, which are currently partial feeder schools to Medway HS.
Details regarding the review may be found here: www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Comment 140: In Sept 2024 my daughter will be in grade 12 at Banting. Would she be expected to transfer to Clarke Road, or could she stay considering she has formed relationships with teachers and peers and Clarke Road may not offer the courses she wants.
Response 140: Trustees may consider legacy agreement options for current students to remain at prior schools following the implementation of any boundary changes. We encourage families to participate in the school level meetings that will be held as part of this review and provide feedback regarding these considerations.
Comment 139: In the City of London Secondary Panel Attendance Area Review Initial Report, both proposed options rely on the number of French Immersion sites increasing from 2 to 3 to relieve pressure on the school population at the dual-stream sites of Banting and Laurier. During the Q & A session at the March 1st, 2023, LAAR meeting, TVDSB stated that "with smaller programs come less course offerings", meaning that there will inevitably be a reduction in the number of course offerings available for all FI programs in the city. This will undoubtedly (and rightfully) cause significant pushback from the FI community.
If the proposed plan to go to 3 FI sites does NOT get approved, this could have a significant impact on other boundary adjustments, as many are directly and indirectly linked to what happens with the FI sites. In that case, could the LAAR process be paused so that additional revisions to the proposal can take place?
Response 139: The English track and French Immersion boundary changes being considered are linked. Depending on the decision made by Trustees regarding French Immersion, the English track boundary options may need to be revised.
Comment 138: Please explain the rationale behind TVDSB's objective to eliminate split-feeder schools. Beyond keeping public school cohorts together, are there other factors driving this change? This rule is frequently too rigid for students living near the edge of a rural area and will force these students to commute significantly farther than they currently do. Having some flexibility on where students attend high school is always helpful.
Response 138: Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. Balancing enrolment across schools will also position TVDSB more favourably for obtaining capital funding from the Ministry of Education for a new secondary school.
Upon the implementation of any boundary changes, students would be expected to attend their designated secondary schools. Those students who wish to attend an out-of-area school would need to apply, per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 137: My daughter is enrolling in Grade 10 at London Central Secondary School and expect to graduate in 2025. I am really concerned that she must move back to her home school before Grade 12 in 2024.
Response 137: Two options have been developed for Central SS as part of this review.
Option 1 for Central SS would be to keep the school as status quo as it relates to out of area students. The school would continue to accept out of area students with some adjustments to its home boundary in order to designate elementary feeders to one secondary school.
Under Option 2 in the initial attendance area review report, students currently attending Central Secondary School from out of area would attend their designated home school instead, with additional changes being considered to the school’s home boundary. Trustees will consider legacy agreement options for current students to attend their prior school as part of the decision-making process.
Comment 136: What is the plan to address split families, specifically where currently both parents reside in the same school zone, but going forward with the proposed changes they will reside in different zones? Children share their time equally with both parents and will require bussing to school from both houses.
Response 136: Either address may be used to register students for school.
Comment 135: My questions/comments are directed toward the proposed changes in the attendance area for Saunders S.S.
One of the many reasons my family purchased our home in Westmount was the school catchment areas and ease of access to both W. Sherwood Fox and Saunders.
Why should my son who is currently attending Fox and located within a 10 min walk of Saunders, be made to attend Westminster and almost triple his travel time? It seems ridiculous to me that students who are literally across the road and around the corner, less than 1km away, would be sent to what is currently an out-of-area school.
W. Sherwood Fox is the next closest elementary school, after Westmount, and has always (to the best of my knowledge) fed into Saunders. Why wouldn't the students from the yet-to-be-built elementary school, who would likely be bussed anyway, be sent to Westminster instead?
It seems unfair to me to ask families who live in the current attendance area, to be the ones to make such a major adjustment, given that many (if not all) of us chose to locate here due to the proximity of Saunders.
Response 135: Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. We encourage all families to participate in this review as part of the school-level meetings that will be held by each secondary school community. Meetings will be open to all TVDSB families. Notices regarding these meetings will be circulated via school messenger in the coming weeks.
Please note that TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 134: I got an email today saying my child may be rezoned to Oakridge in 2024 (instead of Lucas) and gave info about a meeting on March 28th. In looking through online documents, I see no way that we will end up being rezoned to Oakridge. I'd rather not attend a meeting that is not relevant to me, so please clarify.
Response 134: All elementary school communities are being notified of secondary school attendance area review subcommittee meetings to ensure that families are aware of all the potential changes and can attend all the meetings.
Please note that Masonville PS is currently a feeder school to A.B. Lucas SS and this is not proposed to change in the options under consideration. There are interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR that illustrate the potential changes under consideration. The maps are searchable by address for ease of use.
Comment 133: I live in the far North of London. My two kids attend Jack Chambers elementary school, which means they will be attending AB Lucas secondary school, no matter which “Scenario” of the two proposals the school board adopts.
I got an email inviting me to attend a public meeting about how changes might affect the Oakridge SS feeders. I don’t think this applies to me…?
I would be very interested in attending any parent information meetings pertaining to Jack Chambers Elementary or to AB Lucas SS, though. Will I be invited to attend these?
Response 133: All elementary school communities are being notified of secondary school attendance area review subcommittee meetings to ensure that families are aware of all the potential changes and can attend all the meetings.
Please note that Jack Chambers PS is currently a split feeder school between A.B. Lucas SS and Medway HS. Both options under consideration contemplate eliminating this feeder split and designating Jack Chamber PS to A.B. Lucas SS in its entirety. Each secondary school subcommittee will be scheduling a meeting as part of this review and notices of these will be distributed to all elementary families so that everyone is invited to participate.
There are interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR that illustrate the potential changes under consideration. The maps are searchable by address for ease of use.
Comment 132: Will my daughter be affected by this change? We currently go to Riverside Public School and take a bus morning and afternoon.
Response 132: Please note that Riverside PS is currently a feeder school to Oakridge SS and this is not proposed to change in the options under consideration.
There are interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR that illustrate the potential changes under consideration. The maps are searchable by address for ease of use.
Comment 131: I received an email stating “You are invited to attend a public meeting about potential changes to Oakridge Secondary School’s attendance area, which may affect where your child attends secondary school.” I am unsure how this affects my child. I assume it is the one that goes to Sherwood Fox as part of the holding zone from the Talbot Village neighborhood. Is the New West London PS the new school that will be going into our neighborhood at Regiment Road and Pack Road? Clarification is appreciated.
Response 131: All elementary school communities are being notified of secondary school attendance area review subcommittee meetings to ensure that families are aware of all the potential changes and can attend all the meetings.
Please note that W. Sherwood Fox PS is currently a feeder school to Saunders SS and is proposed to become a feeder school to Westminster SS. The new Southwest London elementary school (Pack and Regiment) is listed as the new Lambeth-area PS in the attendance area review report tables and would be designated to Saunders SS.
There will be subcommittee meetings scheduled for all secondary schools involved in the review to obtain public feedback and elementary families will be invited to participate.
There are interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR that illustrate the potential changes under consideration. The maps are searchable by address for ease of use.
Comment 130: Would my child be affected by the attendance review for the Komoka area regarding Oakridge Secondary School?
Response 130: All elementary school communities are being notified of secondary school attendance area review subcommittee meetings to ensure that families are aware of all the potential changes and can attend all the meetings.
Please note that Parkview PS is currently a feeder school to Medway HS and this is not proposed to change as part of this review. There are interactive maps available at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR. The maps are searchable by address for ease of use and to help illustrate how potential changes may affect families.
Comment 129: Currently, Jack Chambers P.S. feeds into Medway and Lucas. Current Grade 8 students at Jack Chambers were automatically accepted into both Medway or Lucas regardless of their home address because Jack Chambers feeds into both high schools. In both scenarios listed in this report, it is my understanding that Jack Chambers will only feed into Lucas beginning in September 2024 and that the boundary for the Jack Chambers school will become Lucas only.
1) Am I understanding that based on this report, the current Grade 8 students who chose to attend Medway from the Jack Chambers catchment area will then have to transfer to Lucas for their Grade 10 year starting in September 2024?
2) Will the school board add a legacy agreement for students who have started at their high school (e.g. Medway) and add a legacy agreement for bussing as well until graduation?
3) If there is not a legacy agreement for both registration and bussing, will this decision be finalized before June so that students in this Jack Chambers area could have the opportunity to change their high school registration to Lucas for Grade 9 so that they would not have to switch high schools a year later in Grade 10?
Response 129: The decision regarding the review is expected to be made In June 2023 and any changes would be implemented in September 2024. This decision would include the question of legacy agreements. Students would be expected to attend their designated school upon implementation. Should students wish to attend their newly designated school earlier than the year of implementation, an out-of-area exemption process is available per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Comment 128:
1. We can see Saunders (5 mins walk) from our home, but my child will have to walk 30 plus minutes to Westminster. Will transportation be provided as I cannot take time off from work to transport my child? He will never make it to school on time.
2. In reading previous answers to questions, it appears that the common response is that all schools will have the same activities, courses, supports, etc. However, Saunders has football and Westminster doesn't, as one example. Has the Board implemented a plan to bring all support to schools that are lacking sports/courses IMMEDIATELY upon the planned implementation date? And if so, please explain how this is going to happen i.e., hire new staff.
3. To remove students midway through their high school years is absolutely terrifying. Our mental health supports are already lacking and to create this much chaos is catastrophic. I hope this is being taken into consideration. My son at Saunders no longer chums with friends from Fox. He has established new relationships with kids outside of his designated home school.
Response 128: Transportation eligibility is determined by Student Transportation Services (https://www.mybigyellowbus.ca) and this depends on several factors. The applicable policy is available here. Busing would continue to be offered in accordance with this policy following the completion of this review and the implementation of any boundary changes. Students at Westminster SS can take courses in all pathways to be successful at post-secondary destinations in the workplace, in college, and in university. Extracurricular sports and activities at secondary schools are driven by student interest and supported by volunteer staff and community coaches. When there is enough interest in a club or activity or TVRA sport, the school administration works with the staff and community to find staff and community adult coaches and supervisors to run the activity.
Comment 127: It was mentioned that a smaller FI program may have fewer options but not poorer options. This is a HUGE deterrent from the Immersion program. I'm an immersion teacher myself and have spoken to many parents. MANY students stay in immersion because of the many options that Banting DOES offer unlike MTS for example, where you can ONLY complete your Immersion certificate by forcefully taking Math, Science, and Religion in French. This is a huge struggle for students on IEPs, for students who find those subjects more challenging, AND it significantly reduces the elective courses that immersion students can take and enjoy. This is not equitable and will be the death of post-elementary immersion. How is this maintaining equity or encouraging students to stay in immersion??? Munity to find staff and community adult coaches and supervisors to run the activity.
Response 127: Thames Valley is proposing three FI schools of 300+ students each.
While each of these three proposed programs will offer fewer courses than two programs of 450+ students, the breadth of courses available would continue to be fulsome for all pupils. Thames Valley offers viable FI programs in Oxford, Elgin, and Middlesex that are significantly smaller (ranging from 100 - 200 pupils) and students are fully able to meet FI requirements in those programs.
Comment 126: How many students that fall within the Masonville Elementary catchment currently attend Louise Arbour French Immersion?
Response 126: Of the students attending Louise Arbour FI PS, 25 reside within the Masonville PS boundary.
Comment 125: How many of those students on average graduate and continue French Immersion for their secondary school education in French Immersion? (They'd currently head to Banting for that).
Response 125: The 3-year average is 67%. Between 2021 and 2022 it was 77%.
Comment 124: We would like to understand what the target capacity for Medway HS under both scenarios is. What is the target capacity for North Middlesex District High School? What is the target capacity for SDCI? What is the target capacity for Lord Dorchester?
Response 124: There are no “targets” per se, but the goal is to balance enrolment as equitably as possible amongst the schools involved in the review. Please note that SDCI and North Middlesex DHS are not involved in the review.
Comment 123: What is the average class size of high school students at Medway? Why are you using 21 (On the ground) as the standard if more classes are larger?
Response 123: Class sizes at all our Secondary schools must average out to be approximately 21 or 22 pupils per class.
Individual class sizes at Medway and all schools vary based on contractually negotiated class sizes that range from a maximum of 10 pupils in a Developmental Education class to a maximum of 30 or more pupils in a grade 11 University English class. Class sizes tend to be lower in earlier grades and in hands-on subjects like Technology.
Comment 122: What is our priority for Medway? Is it to keep it as a Middlesex County school or to allow closer Londoners to attend (due to proximity)?
Response 122: The review proposes to designate the following feeder schools to Medway: Oxbow, Centennial Central, Parkview, Wilberforce, Delaware Central, and Valleyview. We would welcome feedback regarding this proposal. This could include feedback regarding other areas that are currently within Medway’s boundary.
Comment 121: Where can we find the questions/answers that were asked in the original meeting?
Response 121: There is a recording of the initial AARC meeting available here.
Comment 120: Are the decisions with respect to the French Immersion schools set in stone since there are no other options presented?
Response 120: A decision regarding the FI component of this review has not been made. We would appreciate feedback from the community regarding the option presented. Clarke Road SS is the only grade 9-12 English track school with available space that can accommodate a 3rd FI program through a redistribution of students.
Comment 119: Is there a consideration for students that may have to attend up to three high schools due to this area review? The Fanshawe Park/Adelaide area students may be moved around several times with these scenarios.
Response 119: The new north London secondary school is not expected to be constructed for several years as it has not yet been submitted to the Ministry of Education for consideration of approval. Existing students are not expected to have to attend 3 different secondary schools.
Comment 118: Holding zone, Bostwick area, was formerly called Holding Zone at Brock. There are some kids still attending Brock who are part of the Legacy Agreement from the Elementary Area Review. Now it is known as Holding Zone at Victoria PS. Please clarify where these children are included in the Area Review Proposals and update Board information accordingly. (For example, Holding zone at Victoria PS/Brock PS, if that is the case.)
Response 118: There are two holding schools for this area as the holding zone was amended as part of the elementary panel attendance area review in London to designate new families to Victoria PS due to space constraints at Sir Isaac Brock PS. This is factored into the enrolment projections for both schools.
Comment 117: Why are we moving children around to different High Schools when the majority will still be over-capacity at the end of the process?
Response 117: There is space available at Westminster SS, Clarke Road SS, and Montcalm SS. The purpose of the review is to balance enrolment and to better position the community for new capital investment in the form of a new secondary school once schools with space are better utilized.
Comment 116: If the purpose of the Area Review is to make a business case for there to be another High School constructed in the area, will there be another Review soon when that school is constructed?
Response 116: It will likely take several years to receive approval for a new school, and several years to construct it. A future boundary review will be needed to establish an attendance area for the new school once funding and a school site are secured.
Comment 115: If Westminster remains under full capacity will that impact the construction of a new High School?
Response 115: To strengthen business cases for new schools, it is imperative that our existing spaces be used as efficiently as possible. Having underutilized facilities reduces the likelihood that a new school is going to be approved by the Ministry of Education.
Comment 114: How does the Board plan to accommodate a possible influx of Tech Emphasis students at Saunders? If a Legacy agreement is not put in place will there be a provision for current students to declare Tech Emphasis to remain at Saunders?
Response 114: Students will continue to be able to register for Tech Emphasis programming at the three Tech Emphasis sites at Saunders SS, Clarke Road SS, and Montcalm SS. Tech Emphasis boundaries are not proposed to change as part of this review.
Comment 113: It seems like the decisions are being made strictly based on numbers and data. So, what impact will Community feedback have on the decision? Are subjective opinions going to be considered? What will be the weight of public input vs numerical data?
Response 113: Community feedback is a critical component of the review. The Administration will review and consider all feedback received as part of the preparation of a Final Attendance Area Review Report. Trustees will also take this feedback into account as part of their decision-making process.
Comment 112: The stated objectives of the Area Review aren’t identified in all schools impacted by the Review, including Saunders, so why are we proposing such dramatic changes to Saunders?
Response 112: The review examined all secondary school attendance areas within the City of London and the surrounding area. Many schools are overutilized and some are projected to become more overutilized in the coming years. The potential changes factor in both current and projected enrolment and propose to change elementary and secondary school feeder relationships to manage growth into the future.
Comment 111: Will Transition Teams be made available to assist parents, students, and schools through these changes should they be voted in?
Response 111: Absolutely. These teams will be established in advance of the implementation of any changes to ensure the appropriate supports are available to families as part of this process.
Comment 110: Is it possible for the sub-committee to propose other options if the two options presented by the Board are not supported by the community?
Response 110: Yes, these would be welcomed and encouraged as part of this consultation process.
Comment 109: The timelines seem rushed. Is it possible for the sub-committee to ask for an extension to ensure that the public has a true understanding of the issues?
Response 109: The timelines being followed are prescribed by TVDSB’s Attendance Area Review Procedure. If there is additional information that is required by subcommittees to provide feedback as part of this process, we would be happy to provide these details.
Comment 108: When did this discussion begin at the board level? What is the benchmark for the Board to do an Attendance Area Review? Why was this not conducted earlier, before High Schools became so over-capacity? We have number projections now, did we not previously?
Response 108: There has been a significant increase in enrolment over the last several years as this part of Ontario has become one of the fastest-growing areas in all of Canada. TVDSB completed the City of London Elementary Attendance Area Review in June 2022. The review of secondary school boundaries followed immediately after given that elementary boundary changes needed to be factored into this analysis. There is no specific threshold of enrolment or school utilization that must be met to initiate a review.
Comment 107: Will students entering from new feeder schools be able to select courses at the same time as those already registered or in current feeder schools or will they have to wait until later to select their courses, thus risking that desired courses are already full? What will the impact of restructuring on course options be for both mainstream and FI programs?
Response 107: All students changing schools will have access to the same courses as other students. There are no impacts on English track course options because of this review. Redistributing French Immersion students from Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS and Sir Fredrick Banting SS to create a 3rd French Immersion school at Clarke Road SS will create much-needed space at both schools for other in-area pupils. While this will result in smaller French Immersion programs at these schools, we know from experience at our other secondary French Immersion sites that a robust and diverse program can certainly be offered with the projected enrolment of 300+ pupils at each school.
Comment 106: Is there a solid rationale for moving Sherwood Fox students, the second closest elementary school to Saunders to Westminster? Rather than choosing other students to relocate (for example, those already being bussed to Saunders)?
Response 106: Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the locations of some elementary schools and configurations of some attendance areas make it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while balancing enrolment comprehensively. The distance from W. Sherwood Fox PS to Westminster SS is approximately 1.5km further than it is to Saunders SS (which equates to ~3 minute drive), with a portion of the W. Sherwood Fox PS attendance area being located closer to Westminster SS than it is to Saunders SS.
Comment 105: Why are so many Westminster Feeder School students choosing to move to the Catholic Board rather than attending their home High School?
Response 105: Enrolment at Westminster SS has been growing in recent years. This school offers a wide range of programming for students to take courses in all pathways to be successful following graduation.
Comment 104: Are sub-committees required to open meetings to the entire community?
Response 104: Yes, those meetings are scheduled for the purpose of gathering feedback.
Comment 103: Now that a chair and secretary have been chosen, is the sub-committee open to new members or are they just permitted to attend as guests?
Response 103: The subcommittee makeup is set. Members of the school community are encouraged to attend public meetings to provide feedback.
Comment 102: Is there any data/statistics available to show the current income demographics of the school community boundary? Please provide if available or where to find the information.
Response 102: Income data is not available.
Comment 101: Please continue to allow out-of-area children to apply and attend the high school they desire. Not just for current students, but for all students in the years to come.
Please continue to support inclusivity and diversity in all schools by allowing enrolment applications from all areas.
Every school in the TVDSB offers a unique environment. Students that feel passionately about a program, whether it be academic or extra curricular, should be encouraged to pursue their interests without having to worry about where they live.
My children attend London Central Secondary School and it has been a fantastic fit. We are out-of-area.
There are many reasons we were drawn to Central, to name a few; the academic programs, the music department-specifically the strings program which very few schools offer, and the Cross Country program (which has seen all runners advance to WOSSA for the last 23 years).
Schools are successful when students want to be there. Students are successful when they are excited and engaged.
My children love going to Central because it speaks to their interests. They are thriving in an environment that energizes them.
Comment 100: Are there statistics/numbers available to show the students in the current London South boundary who are attending an out of area school? Please provide if available or where to find the information.
Response 100: 2022 secondary students residing within London South CI attendance reported by their attending school:
London South CI Catchment Residing Students (2022)
|
Attending School |
FI |
RT |
Total |
Total Share |
|
A. B. Lucas SS |
0 |
1 |
1 |
0% |
|
B. Davison SS |
0 |
6 |
6 |
0% |
|
Central SS |
0 |
72 |
72 |
5% |
|
Clarke Road SS |
0 |
30 |
30 |
2% |
|
H. B. Beal SS |
0 |
297 |
297 |
22% |
|
London South CI |
0 |
631 |
631 |
46% |
|
Montcalm SS |
0 |
6 |
6 |
0% |
|
Oakridge SS |
0 |
6 |
6 |
0% |
|
Saunders SS |
0 |
85 |
85 |
6% |
|
Sir Frederick Banting SS |
34 |
6 |
40 |
3% |
|
Sir Wilfrid Laurier SS |
26 |
112 |
138 |
10% |
|
Westminster SS |
0 |
62 |
62 |
5% |
|
Total |
60 |
1,314 |
1,374 |
100% |
Comment 99: I am writing to you all as a parent of grade 11 student and a grade 9 student at Medway High School.
I have other children who are not yet in high school, and I understand that potential rezoning of high school zones is a necessity.
I intend to be in attendance at the meeting this evening, however, I would like to also send along a very strong request that the committee consider allowing any current student of Medway to be offered the opportunity to continue their education there until graduation.
Understanding that transportation may be the responsibility of the family, I think it is imperative that these students be allowed to continue their High School education where it began. Current High School students have undergone experiences and stresses that are beyond what any child should have to go through due to the pandemic. Forcing them to make another significant change in their educational path just as they have been able to return to some level of normalcy is unacceptable and I believe will be cause for even greater mental health struggles for many students.
They do not deserve to have this level of change and anxiety forced upon them.
Please share my request and concerns with all vested parties, as I believe this request is in the best interest of the students and will allow them to feel that their lives and experiences matter and will allow TVDSB to support students in their best education and health.
Question 98: We live in the country outside of Thorndale. Our top choice is Medway, not Dorchester.
Based on our location, we okay all of our sports out of St. Marys. St. Marys is much closer to us than Dorchester.
If Medway option is taken away from my kids, is there a plan to allow more options than Dorchester? If the change is to not separate based on friends and location, even though we are “Thames Centre”, based on our location, my kids friends and sports are based out of St. Marys. Please do not make Dorchester the only option because I know many Thorndale residents that do not want their kids going to Dorchester. I would choose St. Marys over Dorchester if I had my pick. Thank you.
Response 98: Thanks for your email. Lord Dorchester SS has been proposed as the secondary school for West Nissouri PS. Please note that St. Marys is located outside of Thames Valley.
We encourage families to participate in the secondary school meetings that are being scheduled in order to provide feedback to the school subcommittees as they prepare school community input reports for Trustees’ consideration. Details of the meetings may be found here and are also being distributed to elementary and secondary school families.
Question 97: While I understand the want to keep friends together, why have we not been given the option to see the boundaries with them drawn based on population and what makes sense? For example the area of Kilally is slated to go to Lucas, when in fact it is walking distance to Montcalm, yet the subdivision of Ballymote is within a reasonable distance to Lucas and they will be bussed to Montcalm. I know there must be several parts of the city wondering the same question. Grade 9 is the perfect time to move students to a new school where they can make new friends. In some city's you have to do that twice in your school career if you throw Senior Public schools (Jr. high) into the mix.
Response 97: Thanks for your note. Secondary school boundaries are established through groupings of elementary school feeders, with this review having the objective to eliminate feeder splits. This would ensure students can remain with their peers as much as possible throughout the duration of their education at Thames Valley.
Question 96: Will AAR sub-committee meetings focus on my school or the whole report?
Response 96: Please focus the feedback on the proposed changes to your affected school. You are, however, welcome to provide comments on the full proposal and options being presented for other schools.
Question 95: Please let me know the time of the school level meetings or the contact who organizes the meetings.
Response 95: School level meetings will be led by representatives of each school community. The attendance area review committee meeting will take place virtually on March 1 (7:30 p.m.), with school level meetings to be scheduled by school representatives following this date. Notices will be circulated via school messenger. The attendance area review committee meeting will be streamed at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Question 94: Why not just construct a new school?
Response 94: The construction of a new secondary school in north London is a critical component of the strategy for managing enrolment growth in this area of the district. Our funding partner, the Ministry of Education, requires that school boards make efficient use of existing student spaces as part of its evaluation of business cases for new capital investment in the form of new schools and additions.
Question 93: What options are there for Central SS?
Response 93: There are two options that have been formulated for Central SS as part of an effort to balance enrolment and we encourage families to provide feedback regarding both during the school level meetings that will be held in the coming weeks.
Question 92: If the boundaries are changed as listed in the options provided will the changes only impact registrations for students starting in grade 9 September 2024? What about students who are in grades 10-12 in 2024 and their home address is impacted by the boundary change. Will they be forced to switch schools? I am concerned about the emotional, social, and academic impacts to the students if required to make these changes.
Response 92: The earliest date of implementation of any boundary changes is September 2024. Students would be expected to attend their designated schools at that time. Trustees may consider legacy agreements for current students to attend prior schools as part of their decision-making process.
All of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students involved in this process. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process should families be required to switch schools.
Question 91: Why is this review taking place?
Response 91: Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. Balancing enrolment across schools will also position TVDSB more favourably for obtaining capital funding from the Ministry of Education for a new secondary school in north London.
Question 90: When will potential boundary changes be implemented?
Response 90: Any potential boundary changes would not be implemented until September of 2024, at the earliest.
Question 89: How do we oppose the changes?
Response 89: We encourage all families who are interested in this review to participate in the secondary school meetings that will be held by each school community in order to obtain feedback regarding the options under consideration. These meetings will be open to all TVDSB families. Notices will be circulated via School Messenger.
Question 88: You mention that "Cedar Hollow PS is currently split between A.B. Lucas SS and Medway HS". If this is true, why is there no busing available for Cedar Hollow students to go to Medway? (There is no LTC service, bike paths or sidewalks.)
Response 88: Please note that the attendance area is split and busing is provided for all eligible students to their designated secondary school. For busing eligibility, please visit https://www.mybigyellowbus.ca.
Question 87: Do APPLE families living outside of the Arthur Ford/Saunders boundaries have to go to their designated home high school based on their address at this time? Will that be the case if there are boundary changes? How does the enrollment of the APPLE program impact decisions made regarding Arthur Ford?
Response 87: A student's home secondary school is determined by their home elementary feeder school (based on address).
Question 86: Are or will siblings get to attend Saunders moving forward if the boundary is changed? Will that same rule apply for APPLE families? If the boundary is changed will students attending Saunders for the first time in 2023-24 have to switch to Westminster in 2024-25?
Response 86: Boundary changes come into effect on the date of implementation and students would be expected to attend their designated school at that time. Trustees may choose to create legacy agreements allowing for students and their siblings preferences to attend prior schools.
Question 85: Are Arthur Ford students set to change to have Westminster as their new high school in both scenarios?
Response 85: Yes.
Question 84: How is TVDSB working to ensure that boundary changes and guidelines for school choice be overseen so that schools are adequately filled (not over capacity), allowing for some choice in attendance at school based on specially programming, and still allowing for equity and diversity in the school population?
Response 84: Public input is being sought to help ensure that available spaces in schools are used effectively, while also allowing students to continue to attend their Technology Emphasis school if they so choose.
Question 83: Just so we understand, even though we are walking distance to Banting, our kids would have to Clark Rd because their public school was Louise Arbour?
Response 83: Students’ designated secondary schools are determined by elementary school feeders. In the proposal, all students attending Louise Arbour FI PS would be designated to Clarke Road SS for secondary French Immersion programming.
Question 82: I have one child starting SS in the FI program at Banting next year. I have another child starting high school (FI) in 2026. With the change will he go to Clarke Rd even though we live in the Banting school zone?
Response 82: Louise Arbour FI PS would become a feeder to the French Immersion program being proposed at Clarke Road SS. The earliest date of implementation would be September 2024 and all students would be expected to attend their designated secondary school at that time.
Question 81: How do we find out who the sub-committee members are for our school? Who makes up this sub-committee?
Response 81: Each secondary school involved in the review is provided with representation on the attendance area review committee. School subcommittees will be arranging for secondary school meetings in the coming weeks in order to introduce themselves and commence gathering public feedback. Per the Attendance Area Review Procedure , the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities must be families who are currently at the secondary school. The subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate is welcome to do so. Elementary families will be notified of subcommittee meetings and will be able to attend in order to provide input into the attendance area review process.
Question 80: Currently, Jack Chambers P.S. feeds into Medway and Lucas. Current Grade 8 students at Jack Chambers were automatically accepted into both Medway or Lucas regardless of their home address because Jack Chambers feeds into both high schools. In both scenarios listed in this report, it is my understanding that Jack Chambers will only feed into Lucas beginning in September 2024 and that the boundary for the Jack Chambers school will become Lucas only.
Am I understanding that based on this report, that the current Grade 8 students who chose to attend Medway from the Jack Chambers catchment area will then have to transfer to Lucas for their Grade 10 year starting in September 2024?
Will the school board add a legacy agreement for students who have started at their high school (eg. Medway) and add a legacy agreement for bussing as well until graduation?
If there is not a legacy agreement for both registration and bussing, will this decision be finalized before June so that students in this Jack Chambers area could have the opportunity to change their high school registration to Lucas for Grade 9 so that they would not have to switch high schools a year later in Grade 10?
Response 80: Jack Chambers PS is proposed to become a feeder school for A. B. Lucas SS exclusively and the split with Medway HS would be eliminated under both scenarios. The earliest date that any boundary changes would be implemented is September 2024. Students would be expected to attend their designated secondary schools at that time. Trustees will consider legacy agreements, and transportation offerings, as part of their decision-making process. A decision regarding the review is expected in June 2023.
Question 79: I liked to see the scenarios that you have outlined in the report for the High school capacities and forecast enrollments.
What do the capacities look like if you don't change any boundaries, but enforce all boundaries and don't let out of area students in?
Response 79: Page 42 of the agenda containing the initial attendance area review presentation illustrates the status quo utilizations projected for the 2024-2025 and 2028-2029 school years (without any boundary changes). Overutilization of many secondary schools in London is projected to continue as their enrolment will further increase. Schools with available space are expected to continue to have empty pupil spaces available.
Question 78: Why are you forcing students to go to high schools inside their boundary, yet still allowing out of boundary students in? Why not force out of boundary students back to their home schools too? That would be equal treatment.
Response 78: Upon the implementation of any boundary changes, students would be expected to attend their designated secondary schools. Those students who wish to attend an out-of-area school would need to apply, per TVDSB Procedure 4012a. There are very few students who are attending one of the secondary schools involved in this review from outside of all of the attendance areas in the study area.
We encourage families to also provide all feedback through the school subcommittee meetings that will be held in the coming weeks.
Question 77: What is the OTG capacity of B. Davison SS? Realizing that this school has been left out of this particular review it needs to be retained/maintained to accommodate growth.
Response 77: The on-the-ground (OTG) capacity of B. Davison SS is 618 pupil spaces. TVDSB Administration will be presenting recommendations for B. Davison SS at the March 7, 2023 Program and School Services Advisory Committee meeting. The report for this work will be available at https://calendar.tvdsb.ca/board on Monday, March 6, 2023.
Question 76: With the proposed reduced enrolment at each site, this will cause some classes currently offered in French to no longer be run due to limited enrollment. This will impact the students who are trying to line up their course requirements for post-secondary school, while enrolling for sufficient courses to maintain their French language requirements. This will cause a divide in what courses the students may take.
If this proposal moves forward as outlined, TVDSB must then be prepared to run FI classes with limited enrollment or be faced with causing restriction and conflict of a student's choices for their future. To impact a student's future is a greater setback than trying to force students to relocate to accommodate the existing school infrastructure. The TVDSB must be willing to accommodate and keep programs running if they wish to force students to accommodate old population distributions and building attendance footprints.
Response 76: Redistributing French Immersion students from Laurier and Banting to create a 3rd French Immersion school will create much needed space at both of these schools for other in-area pupils. While this will result in smaller French Immersion programs at these schools, we know from experience at our other secondary French Immersion sites that a robust and diverse program can certainly be offered with the projected enrolment of 300+ pupils at each school.
Question 75: Please tell me about boundary changes for my specific school.
Response 75: Details regarding the potential boundary changes for each secondary school involved in the review may be found in the presentation that was provided to Trustees on January 10, 2023 at the Planning and Priorities Advisory Committee meeting. Interactive maps detailing the changes may be found at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR.
Question 74: Why can’t all families attend their closest school?
Response 74: Distance from schools is a consideration in this review. However, the size of the Cedar Hollow PS attendance area makes it impossible to have all families attend the most proximal school while eliminating elementary school feeder splits. A key objective of this review has been to eliminate these feeder splits while balancing enrolment across schools.
Question 73: Has the attendance review study taken into account the extensive development of the former London Psychiatric Hospital land on Highbury when making population projections for secondary school enrolment over the next few years?
Response 73: TVDSB is aware of the redevelopment planned for the site of the former London Psychiatric Hospital. We have been working with the developer and the City of London to request a new elementary school site in this new neighbourhood. In the meantime, this area has been designated as a holding zone with future students to attend Sir John A. Macdonald PS (which feeds into Montcalm SS).
Question 72: My children attend Jack Chambers Elementary school in North London. Currently, graduates of this school are split between AB Lucas SS and Medway SS.
Under the proposed changes, will all students now go to AB Lucas? I ask because we live in the small little enclave within London city limits but outside the AB Lucas boundary depicted on your maps in Scenarios 1 and 2.
Response 72: Jack Chambers PS is proposed to become a feeder school for A. B. Lucas SS exclusively and the split with Medway HS would be eliminated under both scenarios.
Comment 71: Once a decision has been made, and if no legacy agreements is provided, can students directly impacted change high schools?
Question 71: This will certainly be a consideration. The TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 70: Please provide information on whether the proposed plan considers busing changes.
Response: 70: Transportation eligibility is determined by Student Transportation Services (https://www.mybigyellowbus.ca) and this depends on a number of factors. The applicable policy is available here. Busing would continue to be offered in accordance with this policy following the completion of this review and the implementation of any boundary changes.
Question 69: How do we contact members of the AAR sub-committee?
Response 69: Please contact the relevant secondary school’s principal.
Question 68: It has been noted that one of the objectives of the boundary changes is to avoid elementary schools feeding to multiple secondary schools. In my children’s case the new boundaries will actually do the opposite, until their new elementary school is built in a number of years. How will this be addressed in the interim period?
Response 68: We encourage all families who are interested in this review to participate in the secondary school meetings that will be held by each school community in order to obtain feedback regarding the options under consideration. These meetings will be open to all TVDSB families. Notices will be circulated via school messenger.
Comment 67:
Overall, I support the concept of moving to elementary schools only feeding one high school. However, I would like to advocate for the consideration of legacy agreements for students and younger siblings of students in families that will be directly impacted by the proposed attendance area review. Based on our home address we are currently assigned to Medway high school with busing. Our oldest child is in Grade 8 and as we are assigned to Medway this is the school that he has registered for grade 9 (Sept 2023).
With a legacy agreement, the number of students and families impacted could be quantified and included in the larger plan and allow a more seamless transition for families that are directly impacted by the proposed change.
Comment 66:
We can see Saunders from our yard, but this will no longer be their high-school. This seems really inefficient to redistribute the closest schools to Westminster and bus in kids from other areas to Saunders. The board needs to seriously reassess which schools are being used for holding schools. Offering flexibility/choice for those close to boundaries seems to be the most logical approach.
Comment 65:
Why would the students from the second closest elementary school not go to Saunders? My child goes to Sherwood Fox and it only makes sense for Fox to continue to be a feeder school to Saunders based on proximity. For my son to walk to Westminster- as I understand we would not qualify for buses - would be a significant walk compared to Saunders.
Plus I have an older child currently at Saunders, and I’d like my children to attend together.
I do not support this proposed change for Fox.
Comment 64:
I am writing to address my concern to the proposed boundary change for Medway and Lord Dorchester high school. We are located at Medway and Clarke rd. Medway high school is 7.5 km away from our residence (a 5 minute drive) whereas Dorchester is 24km away, (a 25 minute drive) this is more than twice the distance compared to Medway High school. This will greatly affect our children as they won’t get to opportunity to continue their education with the community with which they grew up with. We have no connection to Dorchester whatsoever and hope you would reconsider the boundary change.
Comment 63:
Why not change the boundaries to boost local Central numbers and refrain from kids coming from anywhere? This does not help the community, the kid’s relationships, the kids are on buses too long as it is.
Comment 62:
The problem is the bus transportation.
We live on Victoria Flats on Commissioners Rd & Hamilton Rd. 8mins from Clark High school, however the school bus comes in this area but doesn’t stop to do pick ups. That makes no sense to me. Can you please look into this? We are then subject to send our children to Dorchester which is 35 min bus ride to school? This is unreasonable.
Comment 61:
How come that ALL WNPS children are forced to go to Lord Dorchester and the current multi feeding system between 2-3 SS/HS is suddenly not possible anymore? (To support distance- or academic related reasons)
How come that parents with children “currently in grade 8” are only subject to the form, but the grade 7 and below children/ families that are directly impacted by this ridiculous, fatally wrong proposal, are subject to “no argument” at all?
How come that it seems “farm kids” living close to Ilderton and outside of Thorndale, North/ Northwest etc. are all entirely sent to Dorchester? Is there sort of differentiation between town children and farm kids as a separation or discrimination of education support going on?
How come that the (Canadian-Ontarian-) Middlesex Centre society is forced to go green and environmental clean- however the latest idea here is to send an old WWII technology diesel bus driving 192% longer distance, time, cost for approx 1.5 hours instead of approx. 25 mins to Lord Dorchester? (for children that live just northeast or north of Medway HS!!!? and could almost even ride by bike if it were safer streets)
How come that we are all forced to drive electric soon - based on the signed zero emission agreements and now need to drive our kids 19 km (one way) instead of 6.5 km only, in case an after school sports tournament or else needs chauffeur support? Not even mentioning the cost increase on after tax payers money to pay the additional fuel for that)
Is this proposal considered being safe for children and upon utmost duty of care for children? Maybe legally reviewed, not…
…and not seen as environmentally clean approach or even fair to the taxpayer that need to support this nonsense with after tax net dollars? (BTW it is very common that families pick their investment locations to target the school locations within the system for their kids. Now this seems to be just tossed and out of parents’ control.)
How come that all these farmers that are paying a fair amount of tax dollar more are disadvantaged compared to a smaller townhouse or condo owner in the city? Aka percentage of property tax is subject to be used for the school bus transportation system, but not subject to be thrown out of the window to support socialist concepts-as well seen in the example here.
Even though it looks like all is decided already and in almost 90 pages roll out here, just an information…These proposals need to be reviewed under a common sense and simplicity approach to support distance related decisions -as it was simply and easy set before. The school attendance number balance is out based on the ridiculous wrong housing development and land development around London (North) that is faster growing than the county infrastructure development is even able to finance all impacts. Why is that non-natural population growth now put on farmers and workers shoulders? And foremost on children’s Education and circumstances? Can one be more non-supportive to children and youth, than this concept?
Comment 60:
My family was informed of the potential boundary changes for West Nissouri being a feeder for Lord Dorchester Secondary School regardless of student’s residence being within close proximity to a Medway Highschool.
We like many are against the proposed boundary changes. Our family was born and raised in Middlesex Centre with relatives that went to Medway High School. We would like our children to go to a High School within the same community they are raised in.
We reside in the rural area on 9 mile Road that is less than 10 minutes away from Medway and a direct route to Dorchester is 22 minutes.
With pick up/ drop offs, our children would be subject to a minimum of 45 minutes on the busy roadways vs 15 minutes… Why place my children in a bus on a busy roadway more than they need to be?
On top of this, the additional driving time for extracurriculars… some children in our area might not be able to participate if forced outside the current boundaries. This could also be 50 minutes of driving or more, on a daily basis. This will cause a lot of stress on families. I strongly feel that the extra driving time for parents should be taken into consideration, when there is a great high school within 10 minutes of our house.
Here are a few options that should be considered.
1. Kilworth/ Komoka to Medway is 18 minutes and those students are currently within the boundary, although there are closer options such as Oakridge Secondary School (only 9 minutes from Kilworth) and St. Thomas Aquinas Catholic Secondary School.
2. Lucan to Medway 18 minutes…North Middlesex District Highschool is 22 minutes.
3. There are bussed kids from Ailsa Craig to Medway which is 23 plus minutes, although they could be sent to North Middlesex District High School (where numbers are low), rather than Medway.
Comment 59:
It seems the children of this agricultural community are being punished by the lack of foresight from the board yet again.
We hope the board considers the negative impacts on families if the boundaries are changed based on which public school our kids attend versus where they live. Thank you for your time.
Comment 58:
I am in opposition to the proposed boundary changes between Lord Dorchester and Medway High School. I am a resident in Middlesex County, living on Nine Mile Road, and this is where our community is. When Prince Andrew closed, the boundary changed so that my child goes to school at West Nissouri. The school is close, so it made sense. However the proposal that all kids from West Nissouri now need to go to high school in Dorchester, feels unfair. Dorchester is more than twice the distance from our home than Medway. Our community is not in Dorchester, it is here in Middlesex County. Not only would it remove kids from the community, but driving considerations (50 minutes round trip, versus 20 minutes) would drastically reduce the number of after-school teams and clubs that our daughter would be able to participate in. The impact would be detrimental to her overall education because school is about more than just classroom time. The ability to participate in community, the events, teams, clubs and activities would suffer from this proposed change. I truly hope that the board sees how negative the impact would be, and chooses to keep our kids here in our community.
Comment 57:
In response to an earlier question (number 18) it was suggested that the Attendance Area Review and the transfer of students from their current schools was part of the "business case" the Board hoped to make to the Ministry of Education for a new high school building. Is it appropriate to base decisions about children's attendance at particular schools on a "business case"? Should we not be considering the mental health and well-being of our children rather than what looks best in a "business case"?
Comment 56:
My understanding is the current enrolment pressure stems from increasing population in London in recent year. The solution for this problem should be to increase school capacity and to build more schools. Shuffling students between schools could only be a temporarily measure and will not solve the capacity gap in a long term. Destroying a prestigious academic school that the community has worked so hard to build for more than 10 decades just for such a short-term measure seems to be near-sighted. The consequence of the proposal option 2 will forever shatter the prestige of London Central and will adversely impact TVDSB education quality, which all the people who care about the quality of education and the future of the city need to do everything we can to prevent it from happening.
Comment 55:
I moved from Hamilton to London 10 years ago. When I decided to move to London, one of the factors that I considered was the schools. London has several excellent schools, among them the most impressive one is London Central SS. I believe it’s the hard-working teachers, students, staffs, and families who work together to make it such an outstanding school. London Central has set the golden standard for our city’s education, which I believe is a motivation for other schools to improve. The London Central students I know are all very proud of the diversity of their school, and the fact that their classmates are from all over the city make the school special. However, the proposal (option 2) will take that away from London Central and make it no difference from other schools. This will ruin the school’s tradition and reputation. As a resident of London and as a parent, I am strongly against the proposal to close the boundary of London Central.
Comment 54:
My understanding is the current enrolment pressure stems from increasing population in London in recent year. The solution for this problem should be to increase school capacity and to build more schools. Shuffling students between schools could only be a temporarily measure and will not solve the capacity gap in a long term. Destroying a prestigious academic school that the community has worked so hard to build for more than 10 decades just for such a short term measure seems to be near-sighted. The consequence of the proposal option 2 will forever shatter the prestige of London Central and will adversely impact TVDSB education quality, which all the people who care about the quality of education and the future of the city need to do everything we can to prevent it from happening.
Comment 53:
I moved from Hamilton to London 10 years ago. When I decided to move to London, one of the factors that I considered was the schools. London has several excellent schools, among them the most impressive one is London Central SS. I believe it’s the hard-working teachers, students, staffs, and families who work together to make it such an outstanding school. London Central has set the golden standard for our city’s education, which I believe is a motivation for other schools to improve. The London Central students I know are all very proud of the diversity of their school, and the fact that their classmates are from all over the city make the school special. However, the proposal (option 2) will take that away from London Central and make it no difference from other schools. This will ruin the school’s tradition and reputation. As a resident of London and as a parent, I am strongly against the proposal to close the boundary of London Central.
Comment 52:
I am opposed to the the new boundary changes that are being proposed, for Medway and Lord Dorchester High Schools. I live on Nine Mile Rd. near Clark Road. My wife and I chose this location for a couple of reasons, we both grew up and went to schools in this area that have since been closed. Our two children now have to attend a school in another township because of this. Prince Andrew Pubic School is five minutes from our home and if it hadn't of closed our children would be attending there today. We have played on many sporting teams and where active in many clubs growing up. We both attended Medway High School together, and planned that our children would also one day attend Medway. My family and I feel a strong connection to our community, and would like to learn and grow with family and friends. My Family has no connection with the Dorchester area or Lord Dorchester High School. When deciding on new boundary changes, it doesn't make any sense to take families that live within ten minutes from one school and bus them across town lines 25 minutes to another school. I understand wanting to keep schools together, but in this case looking at personal address and location makes more sense. Thank you.
Comment 51:
London Central Secondary School has been the pride of Londoners. One of the main reasons that this school is so extraordinary is its diversity. Students from different schools and background give the school different dynamics, which also make the school very special and very successful. Second, the academic success of London Central is one of the reasons too, it becomes a great choice if a student in London wanted to have more academic training and get success in academic. I think this is part of our education diversity too which means we provide different wide and dearth of the education to meet different needs to our students in London. Like we have Beal for Arts and we can have London Central for music and Academic too. Why should we make London Central a common school without any characteristics? We have too many common schools already. I feel London Central will lose his value if student from outside of boundary will be rejected. Thanks!
Comment 50:
It makes no sense to move East Carling PS from Montcalm SS to London Central SS and fixed boundary’s of Central. According to your report, Montcalm SS is under-utilized, What’s the point to further reduce its enrollment? I believe keeping Central Status Quo will help relieving pressures of schools in North and West London, and other over-utilized schools as well. London Central has being doing so well for so many years without any special treatment from the School Board, thanks to the hardworking teachers, staffs and students. Drastic changes like option 2 will bring huge risk to the school, not to mention the impact on the students who will be sent back to their home schools.
Comment 49:
I strongly disagree with the change for London Central secondary school Attendance area.
Comment 48:
I moved from Hamilton to London 10 years ago. When I decided to move to London, one of the factors that I considered was the schools. London has several excellent schools, among them the most impressive one is London Central SS. I believe it’s the hard-working teachers, students, staffs, and families who work together to make it such an outstanding school. London Central has set the golden standard for our city’s education, which I believe is a motivation for other schools to improve. The London Central students I know are all very proud of the diversity of their school, and the fact that their classmates are from all over the city make the school special. However, the proposal (option 2) will take that away from London Central and make it no difference from other schools. This will ruin the school’s tradition and reputation. As a resident of London and as a parent, I am strongly against the proposal to close the boundary of London Central.
Comment 47:
I am very concerned that W. Sherwood Fox high school will not remain Saunders. This school is within a few minutes walking distance from our home and Westminster is not within walking distance. And that school (not in our direct area) will be filled with parents dropping off students. When they could easily be walking. Do not make this change.
Comment 46:
We live north of Sunningdale Rd. and my children currently go to Cedar Hollow PS. Our current zoned secondary school is Medway SS. AB Lucas SS is also relatively close. The proposed changes would see my four kids sent to Montcalme SS, which is further away than either of those two aforementioned schools. I'm very disappointed that the distance to schools hasn't been made a priority in redrawing the boundaries.
Comment 45:
Recently I received an email from TVDSB offering support to students who felt stress regarding the earthquake in Turkey. I certainly agree that anyone who is feeling stress over this terrible tragedy should be given support. I would point out that if you asked the average person in London (average, not privileged) whether they are more stressed by the earthquake in Turkey or making their next mortgage payment, I suspect you would find most people would be understandably more affected by the problems in their own lives and which have great affect on their family's well being. Which leads me to my point: does TVDSB understand that they themselves are causing our children stress by the very suggestion that they may be moved from their school that they have come to know as their own? If TVDSB wishes to review the way in which students are permitted to attend out of area schools, it certainly has the right to do so. I do not necessarily agree with the proposed changes, but I am willing to entertain that discussion. But what should not be on the table, and should not have been allowed to get past the discussion stage on your end, is the notion that students currently enrolled and attending Grades 9 and 10 at LCSS could be moved to a different school in 2024. This is causing enormous stress for my son, and from the community reaction, it is clearly causing tremendous stress for many students. I implore you to intermediately remove this from any proposal and reassure the students currently attending LCSS that they will be able to finish their high school careers at the school where they began. After 3 years of pandemic, it has been well documented that our children's well being, sense of security and education has been adversely affected. We are finally back at a time when our children have returned to some sense of normalcy and now you throw this wrench into their lives. Put the well being of our children ahead of the some numbers you wish to adjust on a spreadsheet. Thank you.
Comment 44:
My family stayed and purchased a house here for the Lucas school. This will impact my kid’s education and request you to keep them in school zone. Thank you.
Comment 43:
Clarke Road is so far from our home. I’ll have two kids going to high school in the future and would rather they attend Banting than Clarke Road.
Comment 42:
Our children are currently in grade 10 and 11 and we would like to ensure that they can graduate from AB Lucas. It is our understanding that this is not the plan.
I truly hope the board takes into consideration that these 2 grades have not had a “normal” high school year until this year due to Covid- 19. This year has allowed our children to meet friends and establish a natural network within the school and school community. They are final happy and succeeding academically and socially.
It would be devastating and detrimental to our children’s mental health if they are forced to change schools in their senior years.
It would be shameful if the board does not consider an optional transition plan for the senior students that would allow these students to continue their high school careers to completion at AB Lucas.
Comment 41:
I am quite concerned with the new zoning proposal as I have lived in my current home for over 11 years. I settled in this neighbourhood as it was a growing community that belonged to a good school district. I understand that what is considered a “good school” varies with each person. I have grown my family in this community and had high hopes of my children attending Lucas secondary school.
Family members who have attended Lucas have nothing but great things to say and it has been a start to a brighter future for all. Although I know that each child is different and has their own path, I strongly believe that those years are a very important foundation to any post secondary paths they may take.
Comment 40:
I am in opposition to the proposed boundary changes for Medway High school and Lord Dorchester High School. Our family was born and raised within Middlesex center, close to where we are currently living- Nine Mile Rd and Clarke Rd. It was very important to us, when deciding where to raise our family to remain within our farming community where our parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents are living, where we all grew up. Our community is very important to us. We would have sent our children to Prince Andrew, but it was closed and the students were divided by address- children in our area were sent to Thorndale but still within our Medway community. We have many connections to the previous Prince Andrew community and the current Medway community but no connection to Dorchester. Also, the distance to Dorchester is more than twice the distance to Medway. I hope you will reject the proposal to send all students of West Nissouri to Dorchester and consider the area that these children are being bussed from, the communities our families were born and raised into and keep our children within Medway boundaries. Thank you.
Comment 39:
I really hope the school board reconsiders this for students from W Sherwood Fox. We are the closest elementary school (besides the one on the same campus). TVDSB has extensively promoted initiatives to reduce driving to school but makes our home school one in which most families will drive students to school. It’s not a logical decision.
Comment 38:
Our family hopes that London secondary school still accepts students from out of area school. My son is always interested in attending London Secondary School. He has applying to register the school. Many of his friends are there and he is also attracted by various academic clubs in the school. Our family is dedicated to support our children to pursue and achieve their dreams. We hope that my son can complete his high school in London secondary school.
Question 37: Could you provide some clarity as to why the area to the north west of the Kilally/Highbury intersection is still included in Lucas holding zone ? It is closer to Montcalm than us (Cedar Hollow). Almost all the TVDSB are bounded by the Thames - except this one. Why are these students not expected to got to Montcalm?
Response 37: The area northwest of Kilally Road and Highbury Avenue North is part of the Northridge PS attendance area. The area is the southeast limit of this elemenetary school’s attendance area. Northridge PS is currently designated to A.B. Lucas SS, which itself is located within the attendance area of Northridge PS. One of the objectives of this review is to avoid splitting elementary schools across mutliple secondary sites so that students can progress to high school with their peers and not be split up based on geography.
Question 36: Do you have statistics for the number of students that Central would be their home school but they chose to go out of area to Beal, CCH, or other high schools? I know many students that go to Central with my son now, have tried to switch to another school and have been denied. They tried to go to Beal, but in the information I've read, it said Beal was not going to stop accepting out of area students? Maybe I misread.
Response 36: Central SS and H. B. Beal SS share an attendance area. Based on this past fall’s official enrolment, approximately 30% of English track TVDSB students residing in this area attend Central, approximately 52% attend Beal, and approximately 18% are attending another TVDSB secondary school. Central SS students are considered in-area for enrolment at Beal. Those students who are attending an out-of-area school would have needed to apply, per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 35: Can Lester B. Pearson graduated students can go to Central Secondary directly?
Response 35: The changes under consideration would designate students attending Lester B. Pearson School for the Arts to their home secondary school. We encourage families to participate in the school-level consultations that are planned as part of this review. More information regarding these meetings will be made available through the website and School Messenger communication.
Question 34: Wondering if the board had taken into consideration how many students from the elementary feeders elect to attend their proximal high school from LDCSB? Is there really is a need for a new high school to serve the north-west and north-east if students in those areas are not attending their designated TVDSB high school?
Response 34: The enrolment projections for the secondary schools involved in this review consider the share of students who attend TVDSB schools in this part of the district. The projected enrolment, largely a function of the sizes of the elementary grade cohorts that will be progressing through to the secondary panel in the coming years, warrants a new secondary school in north London.
Question 33: Are there plans for any new elementary or high schools?
Response 33: Thank you for your note. TVDSB is experiencing enrolment growth due to rapid development activity and population increases. It is anticipated that a number of new elementary schools will be required in north London in the coming decade in order to manage this growth. A new secondary school in this part of the district will also be needed. All new schools and additions are funded by the Ministry of Education and each may take a number of years to get approved by the Province. More information regarding how new schools are approved is available here.
Question 32: I have two children. One is currently enrolled in Grade 7 at South Dorchester Public School. I have another in Grade 9 at East Elgin. Would the option currently under review mean that my child in grade seven could be attending secondary school in Dorchester rather than East Elgin? Would students currently attending East Elgin be required to transfer to Dorchester?
Response 32: South Dorchester PS is proposed to become a feeder school for Lord Dorchester SS. The earliest date of implementation of any boundary changes is September 2024. Students would be expected to attend their designated schools at that time. Trustees may consider legacy agreements for current students to attend prior schools as part of their decision-making process.
Question 31:
- It is my understanding that Montcolm is a comprehensive “Technology Emphasis" secondary school. Is this true?
- Why are only secondary level community members allowed to participate in the review? With three children at Cedar Hollow, I am very interested in where they will be studying and who they will be hanging out with during their adolescent years.
- Why are you doing this attendance area review? Does anyone care about what students think?
Response 31: Please see below for answers to you questions.
- Students at Montcalm SS are able to take courses in all pathways in order to be successful at post-secondary destinations in the workplace, in college, and in university. This school offers Technology Emphasis programming, among many other course offerings.
- The individuals leading the Attendance Area Review Committee meetings on behalf of the secondary schools must be current families, per the Attendance Area Review Procedure. However, the school meetings will be open to the public and elementary families are encouraged to participate and provide feedback at these meetings. We will be notifying elementary families of these meeting dates.
- Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. We encourage all families to participate in this review as part of the school level meetings that will be held by each secondary school community.
Question 30: Why are these students being re-zoned to Montcalm High School? We are not even in this area. Montcalm high school is so far for us and even longer bus ride. My kids will be with kids not in our living area. Why are these kids not zoned to Medway or Lucas? Why are we not grouped with our neighborhood?
Response 30: Cedar Hollow PS is currently split between A.B. Lucas SS and Medway HS. An attendance area review is a process by which TVDSB changes boundaries to optimize enrolment and balance attendance across specific geographic areas. This is a process that is generally needed because of growing or declining enrolment and is done in order to ensure that optimal learning environments continue to be offered to our students.
All of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students. Students at Secondary Schools in Thames Valley are able to take courses in all pathways in order to be successful at post-secondary destinations in the workplace, in college, and in university. This includes Montcalm Secondary School and A. B. Lucas Secondary School.
Question 29: How is TVDSB planning to manage allocations French-speaking teachers and to offer a variety of courses as many as offered in English in now three French Immersion high schools?
Response 29: The proposal under consideration would redistribute current French Immersion students across three schools rather than two. This would not be an expansion of the program. Redistributing French Immersion students from Laurier and Banting to create a third French Immersion school will create much needed space at both of these schools for other in-area pupils. TVDSB will continue to offer a robust and diverse French Immersion program with the projected enrolment of 300+ pupils at each of the three secondary schools.
Question 28: This seems like a comprehensive review of schools in the city. I wonder why the Medway Area is not considered into this review? Its boundary wraps half-way around the city from Thorndale to Delaware, and down to the 401 by the Oneida Reserve. Students there would need to ride probably 40+ minutes around the city to go to Medway, when they would essentially have to pass by Saunders, Oakridge, and Banting in order to get to their own school. Should this not be a part of this comprehensive review? Those boundaries were established by the necessities of a predecessor board that was amalgamated with London as Thames Valley around 25 years ago. A comprehensive solution at a later date could result in additional implications to current accommodation considerations being reviewed. It may be prudent to consider them all at once.
Response 28: Medway HS is included in this review and there are changes proposed to its boundaries as part of this process. The initial attendance area review report that was prepared as part of the process to commence public consultation may be found here. We encourage all members of the public who are interested in this review to participate in the secondary school meetings that will be held by each school community in order to obtain feedback regarding the options under consideration. These meetings will be advertised at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR and notices will also be distributed via School Messenger.
Question 27: Could you provide some clarity as to why the Area to the north east of the Kilally/Highbury intersection is still included in Lucas holding zone? It is closer to Montcalm than us. Almost all the TVDSB are bounded by the Thames -- except this one. Why are these students not expected to got to Montcalm?
Response 27: The area located northeast of the intersection of Highbury Ave. N. and Kilally Road (south of the river) is part of the Chippewa PS attendance area. Chippewa PS is currently designated to Montcalm SS and this has not been proposed to change at this time. Please note that there are no holding zones in this area.
Question 26: I recently read a petition on change.org started by a London Central Secondary School student. I read and signed his petition, and I also read the attached TVDSB Planning and Priorities Advisory Committee Agenda. It seems that the main purposes of the proposed changes are to address increasing population and enrolment imbalance. After careful comparison and examination, I completely agree with the student and I strongly support Scenario 1 and against Scenario 2.
London Central Secondary School has been the pride of Londoners. One of the main reasons that this school is so extraordinary is its diversity. Students from different schools and background give the school different dynamics, which also make the school very special and very successful. Every children is different, which is why we have different programs for them to choose from, for example, the tech emphasis programs, new tech and art enrichment programs, International Baccalaureate program, French Immersion, etc., so that they can develop their strengths and talents, and succeed in the long run. We should give them more options instead of taking away their freedom of choice.
I know giving each school a fixed instead of an open boundary seems so much simpler, but we shall make the right choice, not the simple one.
If you compare the outcomes of Scenario 1 (London Central SS remain status quo, with out-of-boundary students to be accepted by random selection process) and Scenario 2 (London Central SS attendance area expands and close to out-of-boundary students), Scenario 2 does not address enrolment imbalance issues at all. Since London Central SS area is an aging area, just like its feeder schools (for example, Old North PS), the attendance rate will keep decreasing. However, as its major out-of-area contributor, AB Lucas SS’ enrolment will continue to increase (10~15% higher in Scenario 2 than Scenario 1). Therefore, keeping its out-of-area students as in Scenario 1 can actually better help release the pressure of the extremely over-utilized schools like AB Lucas SS.
I have also talked to many students and their parents. None of them support the changes proposed to London Central SS in Scenario 2. Even most of them will not choose to attend London Central SS, they still believe that keeping the diversity of this school is very important to our community.
I hope that you can help me to present this voice of many Londoners in the upcoming committee meetings, or tell me how to make this voice heard by the committee members. Thank you very much!
Response 26: On January 31, 2023, Trustees supported proceeding with the City of London Secondary Panel Attendance Area Review that includes B. Davison Secondary School and establishing an Attendance Area Review Committee for the purpose of obtaining public feedback regarding the accommodation options included in the initial Attendance Area Report. This review includes secondary schools in London, Arva, Dorchester, and Aylmer.
For more details, please visit the London Secondary Panel Attendance Area Review website Thames Valley invites community members to submit any comments and questions about the review through this website, where responses will also be posted. Members of the public may also subscribe to the website for updates.
Next steps involve forming an Attendance Area Review Committee (AARC) as well as school level sub-committees with parent/guardian representatives from each affected secondary school. Sub-committees will hold meetings with their school communities to gather public feedback and strengthen the options under consideration. If you have not received an invitation, please contact your local school Administrator.
Following this public input process, a Final Attendance Area Review Report and recommendations will be presented at a Board meeting later this school year for Trustees’ consideration. If approved by Trustees, attendance area changes will take effect no earlier than September 2024.
Thank you for your time and understanding as we undergo this vital process. Your participation and feedback matters to us.
Question 25: The Board's Attendance Area Review proposal appears to be largely based on a report written by Watson & Associates Economists, Ltd., a consulting firm located in Mississauga, Ontario. Why is a private consulting firm from outside the city, which does not have the local knowledge of neighborhoods and their histories, serving as the sole basis for the redistricting proposal? Why was there not more local input sought at the proposal stage?
Response 25: Watson & Associates was retained to assist the TVDSB with this attendance area review. Watson & Associates has completed a considerable volume of demographics work, enrolment projections studies, capital and financing studies and attendance and accommodation studies on behalf of school boards, including TVDSB, throughout Ontario and beyond. The firm provides services to close to 50 school boards across Canada. The consulting team is working closely with TVDSB Administration and all recommendations are formulated in conjunction with our staff. All decisions pertaining to this attendance area review will be made by the Board of Trustees.
Question 24: Why will students be forced to change schools in the middle of their high school career? Why can they not stay at their current school where they have built friendships and relationships with staff?
Response 24: Thank you for your question. Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. Keeping communities of interest together and factoring in the proximity of students’ residences to area secondary schools were also important considerations. Every effort was made to ensure boundaries follow major roads and other geographic features.
Trustees may consider legacy agreement options for current students to remain at prior schools following the implementation of any boundary changes. We encourage families to participate in the school level meetings that will be held as part of this review and provide feedback regarding these considerations.
Question 23: If students will be required to go to their "home school" but that school doesn't offer the course or program my child wants to take, can we apply to go to a school that does offer the program? For example, Arthur Ford offers strings music classes but the new boundaries would have her go to Westminster. Westminster does not offer a strings program.
Response 23: Students will continue to be able to apply to other schools for programming-related reasons. TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 22:
- Why does the school board allow students from out of area and international students attend over populated schools, such as A.B. Lucas (“Lucas”)?
- Had anyone considered returning the out of area students attending Central Secondary to their home schools and then re-zoning the Masonville area students currently zoned for Lucas to attend Central?
- Were student addresses properly verified before the data for the proposed boundary changes for Lucas was collected? If not, how do you know the data is correct? I know that I have not had to prove my children’s address while they have been attending Cedar Hollow PS and Lucas.
- Why does the school board feel that it is just to suggest boundary changes to the Cedar Hollow area again when this was just done to us in 2015 on the elementary level?
- Has anyone considered the psychological and economic impacts on students/families of changing school boundaries in an area (Cedar Hollow) that just went through this a few years ago, which is affecting many of the same children again?
- Why is the issue of Lucas being overpopulated suddenly an issue now when it’s been overpopulated for the last 5+ years? What’s another 4 years, while we await a new northeast school to be built? Why change boundaries/uproot students now, then build a new school only to have to change boundaries/uproot students again when a new northeast secondary school is built?
- I'm worried that the programming at Montcalm won't be as fulsome as that at Lucas.
Response 21:
Thanks for your questions. Please see below for responses.
- International Students who pay fees to attend Thames Valley schools either attend schools with Multi Language Learner supports or the school within the geographic area of their residence. Schools that are full are able to take in Out-of-Area students if pupils designated to those schools have chosen to give up their spots and be accepted elsewhere. This is why those spots vary from year to year, including requiring a random selection process or not being available at all.
- All Thames Valley schools have the necessary supports available for students to succeed. The boundary change options were developed based on current and projected enrolments across secondary schools as well as keeping communities of interest together and attending proximal secondary schools based on designated elementary school feeders.
- The potential boundary changes include returning those students who attend from Out-of-Area back to their home school (with the exception of Option 1 for Central SS only).
- Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites. The previous elementary boundary changes that were made were necessary in order to establish an attendance area for the new northeast London elementary school at the time (Cedar Hollow PS).
- Please note that all of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process.
- One of the objectives of the review is to eliminate the splitting of elementary schools across multiple secondary sites. In order to position the community favourably for new capital investment from the Ministry od Education in the form of a new secondary school, our existing available student spaces must be used efficiently. This will also help reduce reliance on portable classrooms. Please note that a location for a new north London secondary school has not yet been determined.
- Students at Secondary Schools in Thames Valley are able to take courses in all pathways in order to be successful at post-secondary destinations in the workplace, in college, and in university. This includes Montcalm Secondary School and A. B. Lucas Secondary School.
Question 20: With the Banting being over capacity, why was Lord Roberts zone switched so that more of those students would get transportation to Banting? In Old South, students used to attend Laurier. Why was this zone switched within the last 10 years?
Response 20: There have been no changes to secondary attendance areas in London during this timeframe.
Question 19: How many out of area students currently attend Lucas?
Response 19: There are approximately 230 students attending A.B. Lucas SS from outside of its attendance area.
Question 18: Has TVDSB petitioned the Government to obtain funding for the alternate solution (New NE/NW Secondary School) listed in the report?
Response 18: TVDSB is in continuous dialogue with the Ministry of Education regarding our many capital needs across the district. The intent of this attendance area review is to balance enrolment across our existing schools in order to support a business case for the construction of a new secondary school in north London. Based on previous discussions with the Ministry regarding other capital needs in Thames Valley, this step is critical to securing funding for a new school.
Question 17: Why at the time Cedar Hollow PS was planned and built, did the Board never communicate the potential that this school wouldn’t be maintained as a feeder school to A.B. Lucas – their current and only affiliated secondary school?
Response 17: Cedar Hollow PS is currently split between A.B. Lucas SS and Medway HS. An attendance area review is a process by which TVDSB changes boundaries to optimize enrolment and balance attendance across specific geographic areas. This is a process that is generally needed because of growing or declining enrolment and is done in order to ensure that optimal learning environments continue to be offered to our students. TVDSB has a procedure for attendance area reviews and this document contains details regarding the process that is followed when boundaries are reviewed.
Question 16: What options are being considered from Kilworth and when will they take effect?
Response 16: At this time, there are no changes being contemplated for the Kilworth area.
Question 15: I'm worried about the effect switching schools will have on my child. I understand the changes needed; however, I think there should be an option for students to stay at their current school if necessary.
Response: 15: Trustees consider "legacy agreements", which allow some students the option of staying at their current schools, as part of the decision-making process. We encourage families to participate in the school meetings planned as part of this review in order to provide feedback regarding this and other components of the boundary changes under consideration.
Question 14: If approved, when would the boundaries take effect? Would current students at Banting that would now be within the Clarke Road boundary be able to finish high school where they started? What about siblings? Usually there is exceptions for siblings to attend the same high school. Meaning, my daughter will be in high school in 24/25 school year, will she have to go to Clarke Rd even though her brother goes to Banting if above rules applies?
Response 14: Thanks for your correspondence. The potential boundary changes would not take effect until September 2024, at the earliest. Students would be expected to attend their designated school at that time.
Question 13: Will younger siblings of current students have the option of enrolling at Banting SS rather than Clarke Road SS, which we understand may be the revised high school for Louise Arbour FI?
Response 13: The potential change to French Immersion boundaries would take effect no earlier than September of 2024. Students would begin attending their newly designated school in the year of implementation, which may require them to switch schools. Students starting school after the implementation of a boundary change would be expected to enrol in school based on the new attendance areas. The TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 12: Our family lives in the Cedar Hollow neighbourhood and have been told that the boundaries are changing for our children to attend at A.B. Lucas and instead will be designated to go to Montcalm. Can you please tell me if this affects the students that are already attending Lucas or registered to attend this upcoming September since those numbers should already be included in the attendance of the school and just affect the grade 7’s for the following year and going forward or does it affect everyone in the neighbourhood regardless if they already attend?
I don’t feel it is right to pull students who have been attending the school since grade 9 and ready to graduate with their friends or not allow siblings to attend that are already registered to go there.
I am confused at why you would ban the neighbourhood that you claim some students are in walking distance of Lucas and can’t take the bus, but the neighbourhoods that are right across from Montcalm and get bused in can still attend when they are closer to that school.
Also the west end area students that get bussed all the way to Lucas from Sir Arthur Currie. That is outrageous that it is ok to ship kids from the west end of the city to what is said to be an overcrowded north end school. There needs to be a better solution for those that are closer, especially when out of town students are being allowed to also come in and attend Lucas.
I know for a fact that there are students that don’t even live in London driving in just to attend Lucas when Medway should be their designated school. Please tell me how this is fair to those students who have grown up with the Northridge area kids and gone through public school and now most of high school to be having to switch schools when they are almost ready to graduate or separating siblings from going to he same high school?
We moved to this neighbourhood specifically for the schools that were being able to be attended and for the courses and such that Lucas offers.
I hope to hear a logical explanation back on this matter and not just the fact that the numbers for attendance are too high because there are other ways they could lowered without taking our whole neighbourhood out of the boundaries. Like moving closer neighbourhoods to Montcalm so they don’t even need to be bussed anywhere and stop allowing out of town students to attend if overcrowding is an issue.
Response 12: The potential boundary changes would not take effect until September 2024, at the earliest. Students would be expected to attend their designated school at that time. Enrolment across secondary schools in London and the surrounding area is growing with many secondary schools experiencing enrolment pressure. The primary purposes of the review are to balance enrolment across schools and eliminate elementary feeder school splits across multiple secondary sites.
All of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students involved in this process. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process.
Please note that students from Sir Arthur Currie PS are currently split between Sir Frederick Banting SS and A. B. Lucas SS. This boundary split is proposed to be eliminated as part of the review with all Sir Arthur Currie PS students proposed to be designated to attend Banting as part of both options 1 and 2 that are included in the initial report.
We encourage families to participate in the school-level consultations that are planned as part of this review. More information regarding these meetings will be made available through the website and School Messenger communication.
Question 11: What if my child wants to attend Westminster Secondary School instead of Saunders Secondary School?
Response 11: Saunders SS is the designated secondary school for Westmount PS students. This is proposed to remain the same through this boundary review. The TVDSB has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 10: To be on the review committee, why isn't there a space for a Grade 7 representative since this grade is the one entering high school in September 2024?
Response 10: Per the Attendance Area Review Procedure, the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities must be families who are currently at the school. However, the subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate is welcome to do so.
Question 9: I feel strongly that students entering high school should get to choose their school (unless the school is already at capacity). First, not every school is the same - there are different opportunities such as a strings music program at one high school and a dance program at another. TVDSB should be proud of the variety offered across the board and allow students the opportunity to access these unique experiences. Second, from a mental health and safety perspective, some students need to choose a school where their elementary peers WON'T be…to avoid bullies or have a clean start…I think every child should have that option as adolescence can be hard enough. I understand the need to shift the boundaries to fill schools in order to build a new school, but forcing students to their home school should not be part of that solution.
Response 9: Thank you for your message. Students will continue to have access to the programs of their choice as this is not proposed to change as part of this review.
Please note that all of our Thames Valley schools offer the same supports and resources to all students, as required. We are committed to ensuring the most consistent transition possible for all students. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process.
Question 8: When will the website be updated with the proposed changes to the Boundaries for all the schools within the London Secondary Attendance Review?
Response 8: There is an interactive map at www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR that illustrates the potential boundary changes under consideration. School Locator on the main TVDSB website will not be updated until any potential changes are approved by Trustees following public consultation.
Question 7: My concern is the amount of growth in the Southwest London area that is currently taking place with plans of expansion in the future. At this time it appears as though Saunders SS is already at or above capacity. There are plans to build a new elementary school in this area, but what about accommodating the future growth with a new high school in the Southwest?
Response 7: The potential options under review seek to balance enrolment across schools, including utilizing the capacity available at Westminster SS, Clarke Road SS, and Montcalm SS. Based on the development activity that is occurring and enrolment projections for our various secondary schools in London and the surrounding area, a new secondary school is planned for North London. Should the need arise, TVDSB is committed to pursuing capital in other areas of this review in order to ensure sufficient pupil spaces are available for students in the community.
Question 6: What Secondary schools in London Ontario are affected in the LAAR?
Response 6: All secondary schools in London are involved in the review with the exception of H.B. Beal SS, for which boundaries are not proposed to change. Medway HS, Lord Dorchester SS, and East Elgin SS are also included in the review.
Please visit www.tvdsb.ca/LAAR to view an interactive map that shows the potential boundary changes.
Question 5: Can out of area students that are already enrolled and attending Central SS be asked to leave and move back to their home secondary school? Or are these proposed changes (especially as laid out in Scenario 2) only going to affect future students who wish to apply and attend Central SS from out of area?
Response 5: Option 1 for Central SS would be to keep the school as status quo as it relates to out of area students. The school would continue to accept out of area students with some adjustments to its home boundary in order to designate elementary feeders to one secondary school. Under Option 2, students currently attending Central SS from out of area would attend their designated home school instead with additional changes being considered to the school’s home boundary.
Question 4: Will siblings be separated? How will the board ensure that the opportunities afforded to Saunders students will be offered at Westminster? For example sports teams, class offerings, etc.
Response 4: The potential boundary changes would not take effect until September 2024, at the earliest. All students would be expected to attend their designated school at that time. All Thames Valley schools offer the same supports, opportunities, and resources to students. Parents and caregivers will have the opportunity for collaboration with staff as part of the student transition process in order to ensure families are well-supported.
Question 3: If students living in the north area are attending London Central Secondary School, do they have to transfer to the other secondary school within the school year...and outside area students are not able to attend the other area secondary school?
Response 3: Option 1 for Central SS would be to keep the school as status quo as it relates to out of area students. The school would continue to accept out of area students with some adjustments to its home boundary in order to designate elementary feeders to one secondary school. Under Option 2 in the initial attendance area review report, students currently attending Central Secondary School from out of area would attend their designated home school instead with additional changes being considered to the school’s home boundary. Regarding other schools involved in the review, students would be expected to attend their designated school under both options.
Question 2: Why is the re-zoning not based on distance?
Response 2: Secondary school boundaries are based on elementary school feeders. The goal of this review is to ensure that grade 8 students are not separated from their peers upon entry into Grade 9 based on address. This is done by designating elementary schools in their entirety to single secondary schools. The Thames Valley District School Board has established a process for out-of-area exemption requests and these are considered on a case-by-case basis, as per TVDSB Procedure 4012a.
Question 1: Why is the registration for parents to participate in the AARC (Attendance Area Review Committee) only open to parents of children already in high school (i.e., Grade 9-12 students)?
Response 1: The Attendance Area Review Procedure guides our work for boundary reviews, and it contains prescribed timelines, membership criteria for the attendance area review committee, and a specific mechanism for obtaining public feedback. As outlined in the procedure, the individuals who lead the attendance area review subcommittee meetings (volunteers) on behalf of their school communities must be families who are currently at the school.
However, the subcommittee meetings are public and anyone who would like to participate and provide feedback is encouraged to do so. Notices regarding school level meetings will be circulated to both secondary and elementary school families. The procedure provides the opportunity for community members to include a minority report with the school’s submission.
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